hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-08 MABOPANE BETTY SKHOSANA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55601&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/mabopane/skhosana.htm CHAIRPERSON: (indistinct), you have brought somebody with you. Who is with you? MS SKHOSANA: He is (indistinct), he is my cousin. CHAIRPERSON: Welcome to you Mr Nabise, thank you for coming. Before Ms Joyce Seroke helps you to tell your story, I will call upon Dr Russel Ally to help you with taking the oath. If you would just stand and raise your hand please. BETTY SKHOSANA: (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much, and now over to Mrs Joyce Seroke. MS SEROKE: Hello Betty. I welcome you with your cousin. You are now going to tell us what happened on 11 March 1992 at Temba, when you were assaulted by the police. Can you tell us what was happening at that time? MS SKHOSANA On 11 March at about 9 o'clock in the evening, I was at my friends called Madira. I left them and I was tired and decided to go and sleep. Whilst still lying on the bed I saw the police coming into the house, and they searched the house. After searching the whole house, the police left. At about something to eleven, I was asleep by then, and they came back. When I woke up I was awoken by sjamboks all over me and the beatings. When I opened my eyes there was a policeman called Vincent Drabalula, who was hitting me. When I was trying to find out what he beating me for, he said I was intending to kill him. He kept on hitting me and you know what was worse is that I had no clothes on me, because I was asleep. He pulled me from the bed and I fell down, and that's when he started kicking me and the others were just looking at him. He pulled me into the dining room, still hitting me. He kept on hitting me for a long time. They then took me along with them to Block 14, that is where Shadrach Stray stays. And then I said to them "I can't climb on the hippo, it is very high." And they said I should climb on my own, they wouldn't help me. My leg was injured by then, and I didn't know how I got injured. I tried by all means to get on that hippo. When I got in, they didn't allow me to sit down. They said I must kneel and I couldn't do that. I had to do what they ordered me to say. When we got to our destination, that is where Shadrach stays, they said I must knock on the door. I did that. Shadrach opened the door and after opening, they searched his house. After searching, I don't know what they said to him, and they then put him in the hippo and drove away. We went to Block 12, when we got there, they got out of the hippo with Shadrach and they left me inside. I didn't know what they did in that house where we were, and then they came back with Shadrach and then we dropped him at his place. They drove with me until (indistinct) and they stayed with me until 5:00am. They were drinking beer by then. One of them called Homsa gave me a gun and said I must hold it on me and when (indistinct) comes across I must shoot him. I asked him "Show me how they shoot" and then one of them said "It is not according to the rules that you should give this lady a gun" and then he took the gun from me. When I was with them they kept insulting me until in the morning, and then they left me and said they don't want to see me on the roads. And then I went to my friend and told her that I was going to the hospital. I then went home and took a hospital file. After taking the file at home, I went across to Block 14 where Moses stayed. When I got there, there were bullet holes on the house, the windows were broken, there was (indistinct) of teargas canisters. And then I greeted Moses. After greeting him, I told him that the police had beaten me up. He told me that the police had also visited him and they shot at the house yesterday in the afternoon. I was told that the other guy had escaped and I was given money to go to the hospital. When I got to the hospital, the doctors worked on my teeth because they were also injured and my right leg was also injured. They gave me some treatment and ordered me to go home. I used to visit the hospital for check ups and I also told Moses I'm afraid to stay at home because my mother works and there is a possibility that the police will come back and fetch me when I'm alone at home. I'd rather stay with him. I thought they would, because they were grown ups, they could speak to the police when they came for me, and I stayed there with them and the police used to come around and throw some teargas at us. I was then transferred to Garankuwa Hospital, and while still attending treatment there, I was supposed to go in for an operation. I was operated, and stayed for 3 months at Garankuwa Hospital, thereafter they discharged me. After being discharged, I wanted to open a case, and I wasn't allowed to do that by the Bop police. I didn't know what to do thereafter because I was on crutches and most of the time I was tired. Even after sitting in a car for a while, I would be very tired, and then I left everything. At the present moment I can't use my right leg, I can't even kneel on it. I can't stand for a longer period. All I can do with this leg is rest it. MS SEROKE: Betty, when the police found you sleeping for the first time, what did they say they wanted from you, what were they searching for, because as you said, they were searching. (The speaker's microphone is not on) MS SKHOSANA: I was not at home, I was at my friends. Sometimes I used to sleep over at my friends. It seems as if those people weren't home and they didn't find me. When they found me at my friend's, I was sleeping, I was in the bedroom. They just told me to get out of bed so that they could search. I did that and they searched. They didn't say anything to me and they went away. When they came back for the second time, Vincent came and started assaulting me. MS SEROKE: When the police arrived and searched, didn't they say they were searching for guns or anything, or dagga? Didn't they tell you what they were searching for? MS SKHOSANA No, they didn't tell me anything. MS SEROKE: Now for the second time when they came back, were you at home? MS SKHOSANA: No, I was still at my friends. I wasn't at home. MS SEROKE: Why did they beat you? MS SKHOSANA: Vincent, I was asleep by then. I just felt someone hitting me. When I woke up, I saw many police in the room. I asked the one who was hitting me, why he was hitting me. He said I was intending to kill him. When I asked him why is he saying that, he didn't explain to me. MS SEROKE: In your statement you said, they were looking for your boyfriend, when they hit you. MS SKHOSANA: No, I didn't know that by then. I only came to know the following day. MS SEROKE: When they were looking for Moses, what did Moses do? To which political organisation did he belong? MS SKHOSANA: I used to hear him say he was going to a meeting of APLA. I didn't know whether he belonged to APLA or what. MS SEROKE: Did they, when did they find Moses? MS SKHOSANA: On the eleventh day, he was, they were shooting against him and then he went away and returned on the 28th of March. When they found they found him on the 28th of March, they arrested him in Attridgeville and then brought him to the Bophutatswana police where they dropped him off at central police station and the Bophutatswana police went to fetch him at Bop central prison. I didn't understand how come he got out of the van, because he was hand-cuffed. he then to his friends at Bosplaas and that is where they killed him. MS SEROKE: Did they find him at Bosplaas? MS SKHOSANA: Yes. MS SEROKE: Are you Moses' girlfriend? MS SKHOSANA: Yes. MS SEROKE: Didn't he tell you anything about his activities within APLA or tell you what for the police was looking for him. MS SKHOSANA: He used to complain that the Bop police were assaulting people and that is true, so he didn't allow them to arrest him. MS SEROKE: So there were no guns in his house that the police were looking for? MS SKHOSANA: At his place, yes, no, yes he had guns. MS SEROKE: Did they find those guns? MS SKHOSANA: I don't know whether they found them at the place where they shot him. MS SEROKE: Have you ever seen those guns at his place? MS SKHOSANA: Yes. MS SEROKE: What did he say he was using those guns for? MS SKHOSANA: He said he protected himself from the police with those guns. MS SEROKE: Did he say he defended himself? MS SKHOSANA: Yes. MS SEROKE: What did they do to cause him to defend himself. MS SKHOSANA: The Bop police wanted to arrest him, but there was nothing wrong that he did or a warrant of arrest for him. MS SEROKE: You said he was involved in the activities of APLA. Was he a (indistinct) or a (indistinct), because in the statement it is said that he was an APLA (indistinct), who was working with Victor Tulari of Attridgeville. Do you know Victor Tulari? MS SKHOSANA: Yes, I know him. MS SEROKE: Were the two of them (indistinct)? MS SKHOSANA: I don't know. His father knows most of these things. MS SEROKE: When they started assaulting you, you said that you had been operated and your teeth were removed. MS SKHOSANA: Yes. MS SEROKE: What was wrong with your teeth? MS SKHOSANA: My teeth were loose and the others had shifted..... (tape ends) MS SEROKE: Where is Moses' parents at this present moment? MS SKHOSANA: They are present. MS SEROKE: Didn't Moses' father bring in his statement? MS SKHOSANA: He did. MS SEROKE: Is Moses' friends at Bosplaas still present, can he come up and submit a statement, because Moses was shot at Bosplaas and you know that, and he said 22 bullets were used to shoot him. MS SKHOSANA: They have written on a paper that they used 22 bullets, but when he going home, we realised there were 24 holes. MS SEROKE: Was there any post mortem conducted after his death? Did you receive documents on the post mortem? MS SKHOSANA: I don't know whether his father has got these papers. MS SEROKE: Did you receive a death certificate? MS SKHOSANA: Yes, but there is nothing written on it. MS SEROKE: Didn't they explain? You said here that City Press reported this matter. Have you got a copy of City Press? MS SKHOSANA: My father has that copy. MS SEROKE: We would like you to bring us that copy of City Press, the matter in it and the death certificate. MS SKHOSANA: Yes I'll do that. MS SEROKE: What is Moses' father doing about that issue? MS SKHOSANA I think that I should have brought him here, but they had a meeting at work. MS SEROKE: Did you have a child with Moses? MS SKHOSANA: No. MS SEROKE: Are you still staying with your parents? MS SKHOSANA: No, I stay at home. MS SEROKE: Thank you. CHAIRPERSON: Betty, I just want to know, are you working at the moment? MS SKHOSANA: No, I am not working. I wish to be employed one day but it is not possible because of the condition of my leg. CHAIRPERSON: What standard did you reach at school? MS SKHOSANA: Standard 9. CHAIRPERSON: Betty, I must thank you on behalf of...., there's a question. DR RANDERA: Betty, just one question. This gentleman, Victor Tulari of Attridgeville, is he still alive? MS SKHOSANA: Yes. He works at the Garankuwa Hospital. I think I can give only the phone numbers, but I don't have them in my head. CHAIRPERSON: Betty, we've listened to your story and we feel with you, it was in 1992, it was five years ago when your life was shattered and your dreams and your ideals were shattered, when you were beaten up by the police, when you heard the terrible news of your boyfriend that was killed and everything fell apart. It must have been terrible but we are so grateful that you did survive in a wonderful way and we know that you suffer still from the marks of what happened to you but we do hope and do wish you all the best for the future. We will take up all these things that you've said, if you can provide us with that City Press article, and with the telephone number of this person in Garankuwa Hospital, it will help us a lot, and as soon as we can, we will come back to you with the information we have. Thank you for coming and please greet your family, your parents and also Moses' parents from all of us. Thank you very much. I would like to call now Mabina Mojapelo, Mabina Mojapelo. If there are still people in the hall that need to make statements, please remember that you can go outside and ask for Sello and he will help you to find somebody to make your statement to. We need all the statements that we can get from the area.