hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-08 MESSINA 1 TSHALO J MORABA 4008 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55606&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/messina/mesmorab.htm DR RANDERA Can I call Tshalo Moraba. Mr Moraba, good afternoon. Can you please introduce the person who is with you? MR MORABA This is Reverend Makena. DR RANDERA Can you please stand to take the oath, please. Joyce? MR MORABA (sworn states) DR RANDERA Mr Manthata, will you take over? MR MANTHATA MR MORABA INTERPRETER DR RANDERA Could you briefly relate to us, when you were arrested and why you were arrested and tell us everything that happened? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA MR MORABA MR MANTHATA Are you telling us that these teachers who were killed were politically involved? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA MR MORABA DR RANDERA Thank you. Can we settle down please. MR MANTHATA I actually want to understand here. Are you saying the teachers, students and the community were thinking that teachers were dying because of political, their involvement in politics? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA This Pops who was a, a witchdoctor, how was his, his, his being a witchdoctor related to politics? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA At the time, were you a student? MR MORABA Yes, I was. MR MANTHATA Were you one of the leaders in, in the political organizations? MR MORABA No, I was not. MR MANTHATA MR MORABA MR MANTHATA Were you not members of any political organization at the time? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA I have another question. Where you not in the leadership of ANC at the time? MR MORABA No, I was not. I was an ordinary member. MR MANTHATA Is there any other reason that you can, it can tell or explain us which made the police to be after you? MR MORABA Before this incident there was one Mr Ramoba who was a CID who used to come to our house to come and fetch us. He would always take us as his customers. MR MANTHATA Was Ndo your lawyer and was he a lawyer to the ANC or he was your private lawyer? MR MORABA He was the Human Rights lawyer. MR MANTHATA How did he relate your incident to politics at the time? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA MR MORABA MR MANTHATA What did you understand at the time when they asked you about Barend Strydom? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA Was it, was it how you answered them when they asked you whether you knew this person? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA Did you know about Mteteledi? MR MORABA MR MANTHATA DR ALLY MR MORABA DR ALLY The, the three teachers you speak about who you say died mysteriously. Do you have any idea how they died? What, what was the cause of their, of their deaths? MR MORABA No, I do not know but what was said was that Pops was responsible but I do not know what killed them but my uncle, what I understood about my uncle is that, that guy was after my uncle and everywhere where my uncle had been, he was also involved. That was a rumour but the way he died, he died from being knocked over, knocked down by a train but it, it was, it was a miracle the way he died. It was mysterious. DR ALLY MR MORABA DR ALLY Just to come back to, to the person who was commonly known as, as Pops. You say that he was a petrol attendant. What else do you know about, about this person. Did this person have any political involvement, other than this description of this person as a petrol attendant, what else do you know about him? MR MORABA DR ALLY Okay. DR RANDERA Miss Seroke? MISS SEROKE Joseph, you are saying, your uncle was knocked down by a train on the train spoor. MR MORABA Yes. MISS SEROKE And what about these other teachers. How did they die? MR MORABA MISS SEROKE MR MORABA His car was from service. MISS SEROKE MR MORABA MISS SEROKE MR NORABA: DR RANDERA MR MORABA I am a welder at home. I do some welding works at home. Are you talking about jobs? I do welding at home and carpenting and part of mechanic. Those are the things I do. DR RANDERA The only other question I have for you is, in your statement you say that at the time of your arrest, it was not only the SAP, the South African Police who were there but also the South African Defence Force. Is that right? MR MORABA Yes, that is the truth. DR RANDERA Was that common in that time that the South African Police and the SADF actually operated together? MR MORABA DR RANDERA Besides your brother, Baldwin, who was arrested with you, there were other young people who were also arrested. Can you remember their names? MR MORABA Yes, I can still remember their names. DR RANDERA And were these all political activists in the, in the community? MR MORABA DR RANDERA Were they all political activists in the community? MR MORABA Yes, they were except my father. He was not interested in politics. DR RANDERA Thank you very much Mr Moraba for coming here to-day. We are going to listen to another person talking about this very incident before lunch. Thank you again. MR MORABA Thank you.