hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-08 MESSINA 1 TSHIMBILINI GLADYS NEUVHIRWA 4012 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55608&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/messina/mesneuvh.htm DR RANDERA Mrs Neuvhirwa, good afternoon. MRS NEUVHIRWA Good afternoon. DR RANDERA MRS NEUVHIRWA In the left hand is my husband. The, on the other, on my right is our Pastor. DR RANDERA Good afternoon to both of you and welcome. To help me is it okay if I call you Gladys. MRS NEUVHIRWA DR RANDERA TSHIMBILINI GLADYS NEUVHIRWA (sworn states) DR RANDERA Thank you, Gladys. Ms Seroke ! MS SEROKE MRS NEUVHIRWA MS SEROKE Thank you Mama Tshimbilini. I would like to find out, when Machudo left on the fourteenth, where did you say he was going to? MRS NEUVHIRWA MS SEROKE Was he working at the, at the mine there? MRS NEUVHIRWA No, he was no longer working, the mine was closed. MS SEROKE Was he politically active? MRS NEUVHIRWA So as a boy I cannot deny because if there were marches he used to join the other people. MS SEROKE He took part in the marches as a member or just somebody who was just interested? A member of the political organization? MRS NEUVHIRWA I agree that he once participated in a certain march. That was the mine march in which he was still working there at the mine because that was a force for everyone who was in that mine. MS SEROKE Were you represented at the case? Did you open a police case against his death? MRS NEUVHIRWA The, the case, although I was not behind that case because I was not knowing the people to contact, I find that this elder man who was here at Messina, Mr Lerhule came and take, and took the statement and he contacted Mr Sergeant Ntai and Ntai came and took me and then I went there to Pietersberg and they asks, they told us the case was already over. The trialer had already been held. MS SEROKE MRS NEUVHIRWA That he was injured internally, it is then that if one is dead they go for a post-mortem and they found that his kidneys were injured inside his kidneys and while I was still there at Sibasa a certain policeman who said that these police are very scared now and when other police asked why, they said because of this person they killed inside the cell. MS SEROKE So, the police were overheard saying that they were scared that the man had died and he was killed in a cell? MRS NEUVHIRWA MS SEROKE .Were there any witnesses who could have proved, you know, that the police actually did killed this man? MRS NEUVHIRWA As to whether there was a witness in the cell. MS SEROKE Yes. MRS NEUVHIRWA There was no witness that was in the police cell. I knew that because of policeman, Mr Matika who came and took me and while we, I was there, they told me that they are calling me in connection with my brother, Machudo because I was not aware that Machudo was in police station. That I know that at about half past two when ma, policeman, Mr Matika came and took us. MS SEROKE Do you have the post-mortem reports? MRS NEUVHIRWA Well, the boers who were there in possession of the papers. DR RANDERA Thank you, Ms Seroke. Mr Manthata ! MR MANTHATA For how long had Machudo been a mine worker? MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA Up to the time when he got killed or he died, how long had he been out of work? MRS NEUVHIRWA Well, he, well that was after the mine had closed down and he went to another firm. MR MANTHATA After the mine, after the mind had closed? MRS NEUVHIRWA About a year. MR MANTHATA And this other employment that he got, what was he doing at that, at that firm? MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA So you say that someone said that the police were scared because Machudo had died in the cell. Do you remember who said that? MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA And this other policeman that you are referring to, is he still a policeman? MRS NEUVHIRWA Well, the two of them, Matika and Masindi are still policemen. MR MANTHATA MRS NEUVHIRWA Honestly, those were vicious people that one could never attempt asking because even if when I look at them, I am so frightened because I know they should have discussed this with me to tell me or to explain to me as to how it came about but they were so vicious and then they were threatening me. Instead of the police looking for the investigation, they asked me to do that. MR MANTHATA MRS NEUVHIRWA Truly so. MR MANTHATA MRS NEUVHIRWA Sorry, could you repeat the question please? MR MANTHATA Did you ever engage a lawyer? MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA Oh, the, the trial is still on and when was that, that is, how far back have you been in touch with Ntai? Is it a week? Is it a month? Is it a year? MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA MRS NEUVHIRWA MR MANTHATA Thank you. DR RANDERA MRS NEUVHIRWA DR RANDERA So, the shop owners knew nothing about somebody on the roof and somebody who had fallen down? MRS NEUVHIRWA DR RANDERA MRS NEUVHIRWA DR RANDERA Was the shop in the camp? MRS NEUVHIRWA It was right in the location called Kambo, Oilchem. DR RANDERA How old was your brother when he died? MRS NEUVHIRWA DR RANDERA Did he have any children? Was he married? MRS NEUVHIRWA No. DR RANDERA Had your, had you brother been, ever been arrested by the police for any other political activity or any other activity before? MRS NEUVHIRWA Not at all. Not a single day. He never knew anything about the cell or prison. DR RANDERA Thank you, Mama Gladys. I have no further questions. MRS NEUVHIRWA Thank you too. DR RANDERA MRS NEUVHIRWA Thank you too.