hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-08 MESSINA 1 ANNIKIE SEKHWAMA 4010 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55611&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/messina/messekhw.htm DR RANDERA Is Mr Chauke here yet? Has he arrived? No, and Mr Thelele, has he arrived? Okay, as these gentlemen have not arrived yet, can I suggest that we break for tea and come back at twenty five to twelve. Thank you very much. Has Mr Thelele arrived? ...(indistinct) the Director General for Safety and Security. How do pronounce ...(indistinct) MS SEKHWAMA Yes, I can hear you. DR RANDERA Mr, Dr Russel Ally is going to be helping you as you tell your statement but before he does that, will you please stand to take the oath. Joyce! MISS SEROKE MS SEKHWAMA (sworn states) MISS SEROKE Thank you. You can sit down. DR ALLY MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY Welcome to, to her as well. Just a few questions, Annikie. First, this incident, was it in 1992 or 1990 because in your statement, the dates which are given or the date which was given is in August 1990 but when you spoke now you said, in 1992. Now this is important if we are going to, to follow up on, on this matter, so, do you, do you have a clear idea? MS SEKHWAMA I actually have forgotten the date because when she was shot, she had a kid at the time. That was in 1992. DR ALLY MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY Sorry, repeat that, where, where were you marching to? MS SEKHWAMA We were going to the police camp. DR ALLY And this was a march to protest against, against VAT, against Value Added Tax and you were marching to the police camp. Now can you tell us a little bit about what was happening during the march? MS SEKHWAMA I have forgotten what we were actually marching for. DR ALLY MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY When the police approached you people marching, did they issue any warnings or did they just start shooting? Can, can you remember what, the sequence of events? MS SEKHWAMA These policemen they actually were against any march in the area because they thought we wanted to fight them. When they see people singing, protest, protesting or demonstrating they were attacking us. DR ALLY Now in your statement, you actually mentioned the person who you, who you say was responsible for, for shooting your sister. Who shot at your sister. How do, how do you know this? MS SEKHWAMA I know because the car that he was travelling in, he was the only Black guy and I saw him when he started shooting us. DR ALLY So you actually saw him take the gun out and, and shoot at, at you. MS SEKHWAMA Yes, I saw him with my eyes. DR ALLY Did you know him beforehand or did you only find out his name afterwards? MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY So his name, who did you learn his name from? Did other people tell you or did you find out afterwards? MS SEKHWAMA I knew his name. DR ALLY DR ALLY And this lawyer, who was this lawyer? Can you remember? MS SEKHWAMA DR ALLY So after you went to the police station and you asked and they told you that the lawyer was, at, was not longer involved in this case. Was that the end of it, or did anything else happen after that? MS EKHWAMA DR ALLY Now this, this shooting led to your sister being blinded in her one eye. Does your sister receive any financial assistance as a result of this? MS SEKHWAMA She received nothing. DR ALLY And, and still now she receives nothing? No grant or ...? MS SEKHWAMA Yes. DR ALLY MS SEKHWAMA I never talked to the guy. I thought we would talk during the trial. DR ALLY But there was no trial. MS SEKHWAMA It just disappeared. DR ALLY And your sister presently, how does she cope? How does she look after herself, her children? What, what is her situation? MS SEKHWAMA We tried to look for, for a job and we are trying to assist her family and her children and we just buy her clothes and my father is actually supporting her and her family. DR ALLY Thank you very much. DR RANDERA Thank you Dr Ally. Ms Seroke? MS SEROKE Annikie, I want to ask about your sister Sarah. Did she start to be mentally disturbed after the shooting or she was like that even before she got injured? MS SEKHWAMA She started after she was shot. MISS SEROKE Was she okay before? MS SEKHWAMA Yes, she was. MR MANTHATA Annikie, how do you relate the march against VAT with a political affairs? MS SEKHWAMA MR MANTHATA MS SEKHWAMA MR MANTHATA When Doctor Ally was asking you, who were the people who organized the march, you said it was the community. MS SEKHWAMA Yes, that is true. MR MANTHATA MS SEKHWAMA There were so many people who were up front where the community were protesting against VAT. MR MANTHATA Who was the Chairperson of, of that meeting? MS SEKHWAMA When, you mean during the time we were marching against VAT? MR MANTHATA No, I, I say, I mean during the time you were in the meeting, discussing about this issue of VAT and we, we had to march against to protest against it? MS SEKHWAMA It was Orbit Machaba. MR MANTHATA Which member was he? Was he a member of the A? MSSEKHWAMA Ja, he was a member of the ANC. MR MANTHATA We, we are talking about 1990 here. MS EKHWAMA Okay, I understand now. MR MANTHATA Now we Sarah at that time, where was she coming from? MS EKHWAMA No, she was coming from one of my sister where, where she lives. MR MANTHATA You mean she was not in the march? MS SEKHWAMA I saw here coming and then I, I asked her where she was coming from and she said she was having a, a young baby and I was asking her whether she left the, the child behind. She said I was coming from my sister Ouma. MR MANTHATA You mean she was not involved in the march? MS SEKHWAMA No. MR MANTHATA Do you have documents from the doctor? M SSEKHWAMA MR MANTHATA You said the, the lawyer is known by, by the Mayor? MS SEKHWAMA Yes. MR MANTHATA And the lawyer never told you how the this harass matter went? MS SEKHWAMA No. MR MANTHATA: Is the lawyer still around in Messina? MS SEKHWAMA No, it was a lawyer from Pietersberg. MR MANTHATA MS SEKHWAMA I went back to the, the Mayor again. MR MANTHATA MS SEKHWAMA He shot at Sharah, Sarah while I was standing with her. MR MANTHATA You mean he was not shooting the people who were marching? MS SEKHWAMA No, he was just shooting at random. MR MANTHATA After the march, were you able to, to know how many people were shot? MS SEKHWAMA No, we never asked anyone because we were very busy with Sarah at that time. MR MANTHATA MS SEKHWAMA MR MANTHATA Is she at school? MS SEKHWAMA MR MANTHATA Thank you. DR RANDERA Mr Manthata has already asked you about the relationship between the protest against Value Added Tax, VAT and what was happening in the community. The political conflicts. Can you tell us what else was happening at that time in Nancefield and Messina. Were there other marches taking place or was the march against the Value Added Tax one, just the first one? MS SEKHWAMA I think this was the first march. DR RANDERA Can I just try and remind you. Were there no marches against, against Councillors at that time? MS SEKHWAMA DR RANDERA MS SEKHWAMA Sarah has three kids. The other was born in 1985. The second born in 1987 and the other last born was born in 1990. DR RANDERA In your statement you also make the point that Sarah became mentally disturbed. Now this happened in 1990. How soon afterwards did you, did you begin to realize that there was something else wrong with Sarah besides the fact that she had been blinded in her left eye? MS SEKHWAMA No. I think she was affected when, after she was being shot on the eye. DR RANDERA Was that immediately noticeable? MS SEKHWAMA DR RANDERA The mental disturbance that you talk about that Sarah has got. Did you notice it as soon as she came out of hospital? MS SEKHWAMA Yes, we realized soon after she was released at the hospital because whenever she heard something like a gun shot, she would start being disturbed. DR RANDERA MS SEKHWAMA She never received any cent. DR RANDERA MS SEKHWAMA No thank you. DR RANDERA