hrvtrans . 1 D T MAAPE, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-07-08 MMABATHO 1 DAVID T MAAPE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55665&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/mmabatho/maape.htm DR RANDERA David welcome. David before I pass you over to my colleague, Tom Manthata, could you please stand and take the oath. DAVID MAAPE (sworn states) MR MANTHATA David, can you please tell us our experience with the police when they met you. MR MAAPE It was on the 12th of September 1987. I arrived here from home, I was from exile. And then on the 6th of November of the same year I was arrested by two Bophuthatswana Police, the other one was Rolf and I don't remember the other one. And they took me to Taung after they forced me to get into their car. When we arrived at Taung they told me to undress and that I should squat on a brick. I couldn't squat on that brick, because they wanted me to squat for a long time. After about 30 minutes police from South Africa arrived. Their names were Le Roux and Van den Berg. They took me into their car and they said, don't worry their is nothing. And a short distance from Taung they took out their handcuffs and they handcuffed me. The other one was sitting with me at the back and Van den Berg was driving and he asked me where was I between 1983 and 1986. I told him I was in Gauteng and he said I was lying and he hit me MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 2 D T MAAPE with his fist on the ribs, and said I wasn't telling the truth. And from there they took me to their offices and they put me in the kitchen for a few minutes. Thereafter they came with a sack, and I think this is a sack they use to put clothes in it and watches, peoples' belongings. After waiting they sprayed me with teargas. They said I should tell he truth otherwise they are going to kill me. I said I have told you the truth, that from 1983 to 1986 I was in Gauteng. And they said I was lying. They took the sack for quite a few minutes and they gave me a black policeman. He took me out and said to me please tell the whites the truth otherwise you are going to be detained for 15 years. I don't mind getting 15 years because what I'm telling that I was in Gauteng is the truth. That was Mr Ngasa. I said to him it doesn't help to speak the truth. There is no truth better than what I've just said. And he said, please speak the truth, God will be with you. I said to him I am speaking the truth, there is nothing else. When they asked me where I was between those years it is true I was not here I was in Gauteng. He took me back to the room and they put the sack back onto my head. One of them called Venter, strangled my neck with this sack. He waited again, they used some iron bars to lock my hands and they handcuffed me and they put me in the van. They drove around the town for a few minutes, because I couldn't see I could sense that I was in town because I could hear the sounds from the cars. Even with my eyes closed I know my town and I felt that we were going outside to the direction of the towns. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 3 D T MAAPE We drove about ten kilo's and when we got there we got into another house and they told me to sit down. They uncuffed me, they told to sit down and they put a stake in between my arms and behind my knees. And they lifted me up and put me on the table. Or it was something like drums because I couldn't see at the time. They started fastening me with wrought wires on my toes and there were something they were winding around. It was making a sound. I started shaking. And then I thought this was an electric shock, many people have been talking about. The other ones were kicking me. The voices I could recognise was Le Roux's, Van der Berg and the other one, called Trompies. They were kicking me and laughing. And while they were doing this I was perspiring at that time and they made me sit down and said I should tell them the truth where I was between 1983 and 1986. I told them I was in Johannesburg. Days went by with these things happening to me. It was teargas, electric shocks and this other thing they called a helicopter. They did that to me with those three things. During the day people would attack me with those electric shocks. At four o'clock they have to send you back. The following day they would resume with their activities. This went on on a daily basis. After three days they arrested my three friends, that is Dougie Africa, Khoso Coetzer and Kenneth Siabu. You see that we have arrested some of your friends, please tell us the truth. And I said to them I don't know which friends you are talking about. People couldn't visit us. I only got one visit from my mother and sister, and that was it. Days went by and we MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 4 D T MAAPE were still being tortured. I would hear in the other room someone screaming and I would know who it was. This went on for days and it took about three weeks. When I realised that there was someone I was outside with who told them that he met me and that person did not know what I was doing there. I ended up in Bophuthatswana with that person. Would you please forgive me, I'm a very nervous person since my torture. They poured water from the car tank, there is another area where they put the water which they mix with tear gas. And my skin started getting a bit dark and it was peeling off. I would end there. MR MANTHATA Before you went to Johannesburg, were you a member of any political party? MR MAAPE They were attacking me on many a times because my brother was a member of a political organization. MR MANTHATA Before they arrested you, were you working together with the youth in Vryburg. MR MAAPE Yes, I was helping the UDF and GAU. MR MANTHATA After this terrible treatment, how is your life now. How do you feel? MR MAAPE I'm a very weak person now. MR MANTHATA What do you mean you are a very weak person. Have you got any illnesses? MR MAAPE Yes, I have a problem with my eyes, I got nervous sometimes, and can't sleep well at night. MR MANTHATA In your statement I can see that you have been to Robben Island. Who testified to the police so that they can open a case against you. MR MAAPE We strike a deal with the lawyers that I should MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 5 D T MAAPE plead guilty because these white policemen said that they had a witness. And if I could argue against the case that will be too heavy for me, although I knew I had a reason to go where I went because I pleaded guilty. MR MANTHATA The way you are telling me does it mean that since that treatment you are living under medication? MR MAAPE Yes, I'm living under medication but I do not have enough funds to get better. DR RANDERA Thank you Tom. David, for almost three weeks you underwent the most intense, some people would say, the most brutal torture at the hands of the then police. It seems to me that once they found out that you were an MK person they left you. I would like to know a little more, you said you just come back from exile. I would like to know more about your life as an MK guerilla and why you went into exile. And why you wouldn't actually say to them what you were because that seemed to have been what they wanted. MR MAAPE That wasn't what they wanted from me, because all they asked me was where was I between 1983 and 1986. DR RANDERA So you weren't out of the country at that time. You were in Gauteng as you say. MR MAAPE From 1983 to 1986 I was in Johannesburg. DR RANDERA Would you like to say more about your ANC activities? MR MAAPE I think I freed our country by taking part in politics. DR RANDERA David, thank you very much. David we want to thank you. When we begin this morning I said that the youth took the initiative and today we are enjoying the fruits, because we are now free. And most of you and most MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 6 D T MAAPE of your friends were tortured. And then we hope that when they see the point that we have been to that will encourage them and that will give you happiness. We must know the truth about what happened in the past. As I have already mentioned that we don't have to forget, we don't have to say that we are now free and then at an ultimate end find ourselves in the same bad actions. We have to be very straight that we will not allow this - whether black or white, or a coloured or an Indian or anybody else - we won't allow them to be assaulted and badly treated as we have been treated. We must know that this is a country to be very proud of, because we know that freedom and self-governing is what we want for everybody. And those who think that we will revenge for the harrassment that they have done they will be shocked to hear that, no we give them hands, we want to walk this way together. We want to build this country together. We want to thank you. DR RANDERA In one way it is much the same kind of stories that we hear, but I am constantly myself amazed at the quality of our people. I am amazed at the quality of old ladies, often uneducated, but with a tremendous spirit, tremendous courage. And they are the people we must honour. All of the people who used to be thought of as if they were nothing, non-entities, they have made a tremendous contribution to bringing about the kind of changes that we see today. And for their sakes and for the sake of many like yourself who have suffered so much we must preserve this MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 7 D T MAAPE thing that we have got and uphold it and guard it jealously.