hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-07-08 MMABATHO 1 VIOLET G MOKOTEDI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55669&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/mmabatho/mokotedi.htm DR RANDERA The next witness is Mrs Violet Mokotedi who will be speaking on behalf of her son, Gabriel Mokotedi. I also understand that Mr Zero Thomas Mongale will be giving evidence in support of what happened to Gabriel as well as Maggie Mokotedi. Is Maggie here? Thank you Maggie. Zero Thomas Mongale, welcome. VIOLET MOKOTEDI (sworn states) MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI (sworn states) MR Z MONGALE (sworn states) DR RANDERA Mr Manthata will you take over please. MR MANTHATA I'll start with Ms Violet. Ms Violet will you please tell us what happened on the 18th of June 1990. MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Yes. It was at night while we were sleeping. We just heard knocks. We opened the door and asked what do they want exactly. And he said, I want Polono he and I told him that there was no Polono here. And he took my son and I asked, where are you taking him to? They took him to Bloekom in Khanyisa. That is where they were beating him and I asked, where have you taken my child to and they told me to just go away, go home. And I said I want to see where my son is, and they refused to let me see my son And when I got back home my other said, they are there and I followed them. And they told me my son is asleep and MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 2 VG MOKOTEDI you cannot see him. I waited outside up until around half past twelve. Then they told me your son has been sent to Bloemfontein for five years in prison. And I left and I came back home and I sat down. After three years that is only when I got to see my child in Kuruman. That was the only time that I got to see my child, that was after three years. And I brought him with today. Even today I even force him to come by. I am done. MR MANTHATA I will ask you a question. At the time what was Gabriel doing? Was he student or not? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Yes, he was still a student. MR MANTHATA Were you aware that he was a member of any organization or not? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, there were no organization that he was a member of. He would just come back home after school. MR MANTHATA Somewhere here in the statement you say, who heard from Gabriel's friends that they arrested Gabriel for some reason. Would you clear that? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Actually, what he said, they just came to fetch him. They didn't even explain why they had to arrest him, when they arrested him. MR MANTHATA I understand that. Didn't you find a lawyer for him? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, we got a lawyer afterwards, and that was done by the ANC. MR MANTHATA Why did they look for a lawyer by that time? Was he already sentenced? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, he was not yet sentenced. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 3 VG MOKOTEDI MR MANTHATA Did they tell you his last name? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, they didn't. MR MANTHATA So you heard that he was already sentenced and that he was already in jail? Did you ever see him in jail? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, I didn't. MR MANTHATA What was the problem that you couldn't see him? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I went there but they told me he was ill, they couldn't take him outside. MR MANTHATA That means you couldn't see him because he was ill? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Yes. MR MANTHATA Didn't they inform you of what his illness was? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, they didn't. DR RANDERA Mrs Mokotedi, let me unbundle this a little so that we could all understand. Gabriel was arrested on the 17th of June 1990. Is that right? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Yes, that is true. DR RANDERA And you say he was taken to Ganyisa Police Station and that you went there on the 18th of June? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI After taking him to Bloekom, along the Ganyisa Road I went to see him but they refuse me permission to see him. It was on a Sunday. DR RANDERA Was there a court case? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I wouldn't know because no one informed me of anything. DR RANDERA How long after he was arrested, were you told that he has been sent to Bloemfontein Prison for three MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 4 VG MOKOTEDI years? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI They told me after about four months and he was the one who wrote to me from Bloemfontein and informed me of his situation. DR RANDERA And where did this story about killing a Battalion 32 soldier come from? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I don't know anything about the soldiers. DR RANDERA I don't know whether you have your statement in front of you, but we are told from your statement that you were told that Gabriel had killed a Battalion 32 soldier. MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI It was a Wambo soldier. I don't know them because I was not one who could move around a lot. INTERPRETER Mrs Mokotedi, Dr Randera wants to know who told you that you son killed a soldier or when did you hear that? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I just heard from boys when they were passing around that my son has killed a soldier. I didn't know that he was a soldier, I only know he was a Wambo. DR RANDERA Mrs Mokotedi, so you don't know why Gabriel was sent to jail? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, I don't. DR RANDERA Mrs Mokotedi, I understand one of the other reasons that you are coming today to tell your story about Gabriel is that he has become mentally disturbed. Is that right? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI Yes, he is also here. We forced him to come here. His words does not work well, his ears doesn't hear well also. DR RANDERA What was Gabriel like before he was arrested MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 5 VG MOKOTEDI by the police? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI He was a very health person. He could wash my washing up for me and then go to school and come back home. These bad things happened later when I heard that the police had taken him to the Bloekom trees. DR RANDERA Are you saying that what happened to Gabriel at the Bloekom trees and soon after his arrest, because of the torture ... MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI That happened to him at the Bloekom trees and when they sent him back he was already not a well lived person. DR RANDERA So you are relating it very much at what happened at the Bloekom tree? Or Bloukom tree. MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I would say that because by the time they sent him back he was already ill. DR RANDERA Last question. You said earlier on that Gabriel wrote you a letter, explaining to you where he was in prison after three or four months. Can you tell us whether you could tell from that letter whether he was all right or not? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI It was not me who read the letter. His sister read the letter to me. I can't read. DR RANDERA I will ask that question to your daughter when we come to ask her some questions. Thank you Mrs Mokotedi. CHAIRPERSON Can you recall exactly what your son was found guilty of when he was sent to prison? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, I can't. I don't exactly know. No one told me what his fault was. CHAIRPERSON And you did not attend the court hearings, the court case? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI No, I never went. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 6 VG MOKOTEDI MR MANTHATA I will ask Kerileng to tell us what he know about Gabriel - as to what he was before he was sent to prison. MR Z K MONGALE What I know is that he was normal and fine and a healthy person. Things now, began to change when he came from die Bloem. He was sent to Bloemfontein and in Bloemfontein he started getting sick and mentally disturbed and from Bloemfontein they gave R200 bail. After that the case sat and they sentenced him to five years. And they sent him to Kuruman and then to Bloemfontein. And then from Bloemfontein he went to Kuruman again. And from Kuruman he went home. MR MANTHATA I understand that you say, you only realised that Gabriel was not mentally well when he came back from Bloemfontein? MR Z MONGALE Not when they locked him up. That was when he went to hospital when he was mentally ill. From there the case was still on when they locked him up in jail because they thought he had run away. It was in the second instance when he went to the court case again, after Bloemfontein. That was when he was already sentenced. MR MANTHATA Do you mean that when he went to the court case he was very mentally ill person? MR Z MONGALE Yes. MR MANTHATA Was he mentally ill when he went for the court case? MR Z MONGALE Yes. MR MANTHATA You as his sister, as your mother couldn't attend the court case, did you go to the court case? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI I didn't hear the question? MR MANTHATA Did you attend the court case? MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 7 VG MOKOTEDI MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI Yes, I attended the court case. MR MANTHATA Before the court case, while Gabriel was still detained, were you able to visit him? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI No, he was still at home. The court case was conducted when he was still at home. He wasn't arrested by then. MR MANTHATA Do you mean, he was living in Vryburg, going to Bloemfontein for a court case? Where was the court case? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI No, he was at home. And he was going to town for a court case. MR MANTHATA Was the court case being conducted in Vryburg? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI Yes. MR MANTHATA And he was released on bail by then? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI Yes. MR MANTHATA You said here that Gabriel was a very well man, interesting. Could you know whether he took part in the organizations at school? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI No, that I did not know. MR MANTHATA I thank you. DR RANDERA These questions are not to give you more pain but so that we can clarify the statements that your mother and you have made about your brother, so that we can understand what had happened to him. Can you just tell us, after Gabriel was arrested, how long was it before he came home on bail? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI It was about three to four months. DR RANDERA And what was his behaviour like at that time. MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI He has changed a lot, we couldn't understand him when he talked. And he wasn't like that before he went away. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 8 M MOKOTEDI DR RANDERA Can you just tell us a little more, Kerileng? What was he saying? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI No one would even understand him when he talked. He would sometimes try to stone us, to break the windows at home and then we had to call the police in, so that they could take him away. And they took him to the hospital at Bloemfontein. DR RANDERA How long was he in the hospital at Bloemfontein? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI He took about three to four weeks I think. DR RANDERA Say anything about the time he was arrested before he was sent to Bloemfontein. MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI Yes, he told us that the police assaulted him. They took him to the Bluegum and then they injured his ear there. MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI You said you were in court. What was he charged with and what was his sentence for? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI The way I understood they said he was the one who had burnt someone. The way they charged him at the court they said that. DR RANDERA Kerileng this is my last question I promise you. Will you please tell us what your brother is like now? MS MAGGIE MOKOTEDI I don't know him as I knew him before. He looks like a mad person now. MR MANTHATA Can you tell us what you know about Gabriel's arrest and yours? MR Z MONGALE Yes, I can explain regarding that. It was on the 18th of June 1990, when I got home that day. My mom told me that the police were here at night, looking for you. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 9 M MOKOTEDI And I left immediately for the police station to hear what they wanted from me. When I got to the police station they told me that Captain Brand was the one looking for me. And they took me in a car to the office of the CID, where I found Gabriel and they also took me into the cell. They closed and locked me up. I just heard some noise and I could tell that something was happening. Someone's been tortured. And they appear, silently, with Gabriel, the police and they ask Gabriel, do you know this one, meaning me. Gabriel said, yes: Was he present when they burnt that person from Battalion 32? And he said, yes, he was present. And they asked what I heard what he said. And I said, yes, I heard. I said to them, I can't tell you anything. You should have asked me, because I could have explained to you. And they asked me to explain. I said to them I don't know anything about burning this person. I wasn't present and I can tell you where I was on that day. If you don't believe me, you could go and ask someone else like you did ask Gabriel. And he threatened me. And I said, you can't threaten me in that way. I was threatened in the past time and you can't do that to me again. And they then locked me up again. At night, at about four, they took me and locked me in the cell. At night they also came to fetch Gabriel and they left with Gabriel. When Gabriel came back he had marks all over his body. The marks of beatings. You could tell the wounds were swollen. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 10 M MOKOTEDI When he was crying, I tried to console him, telling him that you have to be stronger than this. Don't worry, just keep on telling them what you were telling them. And I told him that I am from the magistrate to give a statement and I told everything in the statement. If you agreed with them, you would create problems for me. You could have told them that I was ... that you were not present. You will see them as time goes on. They then came back again. I stayed for about 48 hours in the cells and in those 48 hours they took him away for about three times and when he returned in the night you could see he was crying, he was swollen, he was bleeding from his nose and you could see that someone was washing him with cold water in the evening while it was cold. Then they returned him to the cell to lock him up. They tried to find out where I was and they released me the next morning and they said to me that when this Battalion 32 soldier returns from the hospital at Pretoria, they will come to fetch me for an identification parade. We went to such a parade and they fetched me in the morning. When we got to the identification parade, because I know what the behaviour of the South African policemen were, I knew what to tell them. They like identifying people through their fingerprints. The second thing is they like to influence the other policemen to look for Zero. If he does anything, even if it could be a simple thing, you should call him in, assault him and the following day you should give him a fine that he was drunk. Then I realised that such things could get me into trouble. When we went to such a parade, they made us stand MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 11 Z MONGALE together with other prisoners so that we could put our hands behind our backs. And they knew that the other guy would identify my fingers. And we agreed to what they said. They asked us whether we would like our lawyer to be present. I said, yes. And he said, no it was not necessary for your lawyer to be present, because they wanted to finish this case quickly. I said ok you can go on with your work. On the third time when they came around ... There were the three of us who were given bail. So they left us there - I said it is ok we will stand here. When one guy was left behind and the other guy went away, I said to my friend Toy, get out of there because you can't trust these people. I took off the T-shirt I was wearing, I took a prisoner's T-shirt and wore it and went away and Toy was left standing there. When this person came around he took Toy from where he was standing, because he was the second person from where the line was starting and I was about the ninth person in the line. And then I went to the fourth place and the took Toy away and Toy made a statement. While he had to come to me he didn't come to me, he went to the person who was standing in the place I was in before. And then he said to me you'll make a plan for me, to arrest me and I will end up in jail or they would end up having killed me. MR MANTHATA Did you meet Gabriel in the cell? MR Z MONGALE Yes, we actually met in the cell. MR MANTHATA So you wouldn't know ... MR Z MONGALE No, I don't know much about his politics and how much he was involved so much in the politics. But when there were rallies he would attend. MR MANTHATA I see here from the statement that you were MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 12 Z MONGALE seven locked in one cell. Were you locked up because of the soldier's death. MR Z MONGALE No by that time we were four. We found the others in. They were three. MR MANTHATA Didn't you ask him whether they afforded him the opportunity to see a doctor, because you could see he was ill. MR Z MONGALE No, I asked him about that. And when I asked him it was already in the evening. So I asked him to complain to them the following day that you wanted to see a doctor and they should make sure that every day in the morning, the captains when they came to take the complaints they must make sure that they have already sent him out of the prison. MR MANTHATA The way you saw it, the injuries to Gabriel, were they are a result of assault. MR Z MONGALE Yes, I believe so, because by the time we were in the cells he was ok. He never had any mental illness. MR MANTHATA When you were attending the court case were you able to meet him? MR Z MONGALE Yes, I met him on the last day of the case. That is when he was sentenced. MR MANTHATA I would like to thank you. DR RANDERA Zero, thank you very much for coming today. I just want to clarify this, are you Zero or Zoro? MR Z MONGALE Some people call me Zoro as in the case I was mentioned in, but my name is Zero. DR RANDERA Zero, you say in your statement there was seven people in the cell at the Vryburg police station when you saw Gabriel. Can you remember the names of any of the MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 13 Z MONGALE other people? MR Z MONGALE Yes, I can remember the other names. The one I remember is Toy, his surname was Nonkonyane. The second one was called Jomo, his surname was Sitatobo. The third person was called Bonos, I don't know his surname. DR RANDERA During the 48 hours that you saw Gabriel, how many times was he taken away by the police and came back each time or was it just the one time that he was taken away and came back with the blood and marks on his body? MR Z MONGALE They took him away for about three times, I think. DR RANDERA And did Gabriel say anything to you as to what was happening to him? MR Z MONGALE Yes, he told me what happened to him, because I was the one who was treating him whilst he came back and I was the one trying to comfort him. DR RANDERA Can you please tell us what he said to you? Take your time. MR Z MONGALE Firstly, he said to me was at the dark booms. He was being tortured there. He was put in a car boot. People were having a barbecue and drinking and the other one when he got drunk, came and kicked him. DR RANDERA Zero, you must forgive me but I'm going to just extend so that we can actually look at that, trying to develop a complete picture of the period we are looking at and like Meyer Galeng, your name also comes up in many of our statements and I particularly want to take you back to 1985 and the burning of an individual and the stabbing of an individual and I was just wandering whether you want to make any comment about that period, so we can understand it MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 14 Z MONGALE better. MR Z MONGALE Yes, I have no problem talking about that. What I remember about 1985 is that Frida Mabalane who was a member of the Huhudi Youth Organization - and if I remember well - Frida Mabalane had a case of public violence against her. We used to work together with her in the Huhudi Youth Organization. She was also my girlfriend. What amazed me about Frida is that on the 25th of November while we were together in a meeting, because we as the youth was being attacked by Inkatha, and we realised that if we could leave the situation as it is then maybe disperse, nothing would happen to us. So we had to unite and tried to protect ourselves against the Inkatha people. On the 24th, it was on a Sunday, someone has attacked Bra Hoffie's house, that is Hoffman Galeng and his family, were being stoned and were being hit with knopkieries and pangas. Because these people having killed all our leaders we will have to take initiative to go and gut Mr Hoffman Galeng's house and we went away and when we were at the corner of Mahuro and Magapero there came a van of the Inkatha leader by the name of Mathong. The van was indicating to the right side and when he saw the group, he didn't turn to right they went straight to the group and they pulled the brakes up there and we watched them, we wanted to see what they wanted to do. Two of them ran back to the shop. From the shop they were carrying pangas and guns. The other two were in the van, that was the driver and the other guy. The other three were in the back of the van. They started shooting around and no one could stay at that place. We all ran away. We I was trying to jump a fence I found one of these MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 15 Z MONGALE guys running behind one of the leaders of the Huhudi. It was Keeper. And then I ran after this guy who was Jason Keeper until the Sihumi and Makasani Streets corner. When we got to the corner he turned to overtake me, that was the person by the name of Joba. When we got into Barclay Street there was another car which nearly hit Joba. It was about five o'clock and people were knocking off from work and all those people dispersed and ran away. And we stayed at the corner of the street. I wanted to see what was the aim of those people. Just there they stopped and they were shooting at the direction of the people and the people ran away. And then they reversed the car. I ran into the corner house. When I entered it one of my friends, Sylvester Gasabui came running and Frida was standing on the other side, shouting, saying that they should leave him alone, they should leave her alone. And then I left Frida there. In the evening we went to guard Mr Hoffman Galeng's house. It was already on Monday. Sylvester had already been kicked by these people. On the following morning when we were still sitting Frida came along and she wrote something, where she was. I asked to come to me and she tried to run away and I went to her and asked her to see what she had written and she refused. And then I asked her again. And then she refused again. I took out a knife and I stabbed her and she ran away. And I took what she had written. I read it and I gave the people what I read. It was our names on that list and I said to those people, do you see how we get killed? And on the night of that day I last saw Frida. One MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 16 Z MONGALE thing I heard about her is that she was burnt, because when I went to sleep no one was roaming the streets in the night because the situation was bad. There were only police and the Inkatha people running around at night. And I think it is only the police and the Inkatha people who could know how Frida died. Because they were supposed to know whether Frida was a member of the Huhudi Youth Organization. She must have seen how Sylvester was killed. DR RANDERA Thank you very much. That was my last question. If Mr Malan have any questions or Joyce has? CHAIRPERSON I have a question if Zero could answer that or maybe any of the other two witnesses. The case against Gabriel I assume he was represented by lawyers at the time and do you know who the lawyers were and in which court in which city was that case tried? Was it at Vryburg or Kimberley? MR Z MONGALE Gabriel's case was conducted at Vryburg. CHAIRPERSON Who were his lawyers at the time? MR Z MONGALE I think the lawyer was Chris Walters. CHAIRPERSON My question to Violet: What would you like or request from the Truth Commission regarding to what happened to you? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I couldn't hear him. CHAIRPERSON I was asking, what would you like for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to do for you for all that you underwent? MS VIOLET MOKOTEDI I will ask for the Truth Commission to help me, because there is no other breadwinner at home. Can't you help my child so that he can work for me, because he is the only boy in the home? I thank you. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 17 VG MOKOTEDI CHAIRPERSON I would like to ask Zero: yesterday we have heard Frida's mother and her sister, they were sad for what happened to Frida. Now I remember the mother was saying she would like any person who will come forward and explain as to what happened. Now I would like to ask: wouldn't you try to go to the Mabalane family and explain to them as you have explained to us today. MR Z MONGALE No, I don't think there is a problem there, but the only thing is that I cannot do that alone, because in 1987 when there was a state of emergency I wanted to look for a place at school and when we arrived at the roadblock I don't know whether it was her uncle, but he is closely related to Frida with the name of Dile, he left me at the roadblock and he took me to the Mmabatho Police Station and he assaulted me, saying I have come here to burn some people a I have burnt Frida Mabalane. I asked him whether the Attorney General could come and observe what was happening?. He started insulting me and there was no one to stop him. Therefore, I am afraid to approach the family alone of what they did to me and tomorrow it might look as if I was going to attack them if I go there alone. CHAIRPERSON Yesterday we heard when Galeng was telling us that he is trying to unite the people in his community who were vigilantes before, so he is trying to bring them together so we can work as one union. Wouldn't you now ask Mr Galeng to unite you or to call you together with the Mabaleng family so that you can reconcile and live in peace? I would like to suggest that. Now we heard the pains you have gone through about a child. MMABATHO HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 18 The one who was growing so well, attending school. Showing that in future he will become something in the society. Now you've also said also that this child was so helpful at home doing the laundry and cooking, now we know the pain that you are going through when you look at him, especially in the condition he is. We are very sorry about this young person who has missed out on his youth and lost out. Therefore, when he returned home he was looking like something helpless, he couldn't help at home. We trust that we would help you in a certain way, regarding this child of yours, who was attacked by the police. We are so happy that you came around to tell us your story.