hrvtrans 1 M L BOPAPE, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-12-02 MOUTSE 1 M L BOPAPE JB02185 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55691&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/moutse/bopape.htm MR MALAN Mrs Bopape, will you please stand for the oath. MOSENYA LINAH BOPAPE (Duly sworn in, states). MR MALAN Thank you. You may be seated. MS SEROKE Good afternoon Mrs Bopape. Are you able to hear me clearly? MRS BOPAPE Yes, I do. MS SEROKE We welcome you. We will ask you to tell us about the incident which happened to your son on the first of January 1986. MRS BOPAPE May I start? I want to thank this opportunity for being given to talk about my son. After the death of his father, after two weeks we had a message that Adma has died. They told us the reason that they were killed in Siyabuswa. What could we do because the Siyabuswa people were fighting and we only heard that they were killed. After some time when they were supposed to be buried the corpse was brought by State people and they told us that nobody is allowed to see the corpse. We did not grieve for him. I had quite a problem at that time because nobody cannot afford to not to grieve. I do not know if it was the Law at that time that people should not be given an opportunity to grieve. Then we buried him on Monday. The following day a white man came. He said he should be exhumed because he needs to be examined. We asked them MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 2 M L BOPAPE when are they bringing him back. They said on Wednesday. What can we say because the Government was saying that. Then he was, we went to the cemetery and we told them that at the cemetery there is a person in charge. He told Induna. They went to the cemetery to exhume the body. It was just to keep quiet at that time because I did not know what to do. They exhumed my son and they took him. We waited on Wednesday. Around twelve o' clock they brought the corpse. Then they went to rebury him again. They did not tell us the results of the examination. All those were known by the State agents. We were just complaining on our own. After that, that is all I can say, the Bopape family said God will take care of all those things, but the police came again and they just said the police have killed your children senselessly and those people were arrested. After they were convicted then you will be called to be told of the results. Thereafter we were not called. We do not know as to whether the case has been set. We do not know as to whether it was the practice of the day that the court proceedings would just go on without us being informed. That is all I can say, but we are hopeless and we just say God will see what to do. I thank you. MS SEROKE You say your son was killed because people from Siyabuswa were fighting? What were they fighting for? What was the problem? MRS BOPAPE I heard that they were just fighting the Ndebele people and our people were fighting and it seems our children were going to mediate and they were found and killed. We do not know the reason why they were killed. Only the Government knows. MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 3 M L BOPAPE MS SEROKE Was he a policeman in KwaNdebele Police services or South African Police services? MRS BOPAPE He was transferred to KwaNdebele. MS SEROKE Was he a member of the South African Police services in South Africa or in KwaNdebele at that time? MRS BOPAPE I do not know. MS SEROKE Okay. MRS BOPAPE I am not sure as to whether he was a member of the South African Police in KwanDeble. I am not sure. MS SEROKE When they arrived that they wanted to exhume him, what was the reason? MRS BOPAPE They said he was going to be examined because he was not examined well. MS SEROKE Did they give you some documents which shows the examination? MRS BOPAPE They did not show us anything. They did not show us anything. CHAIRPERSON We thank you. Russell Ally. DR ALLY Thank you Your Grace. Your Grace, this is one of the cases that we have had an opportunity to actually look into a bit. We did obtain the police docket. This was an incident during that conflict that we have been hearing about. There were actually two policemen that day. The other policemen was David Moradie and it was a routine investigation, but because of all of this talk about Imbokhoto, raiding and that Imbokhoto was going to be coming into the villages, when these policemen arrived they were suspected of being Imbokhoto. There was a confrontation, shots were actually fired. One person was killed and it was after that that the crowd then attacked the two policemen. They were hacked to death, they were burnt. There was then MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 4 M L BOPAPE an investigation, a court investigation. Eight people were charged. Eventually three people were found guilty, not of murder, but of assault and with intent to do grievous bodily harm. That was the charge that they were found guilty of. They were sentenced a two year suspended sentence and they were told to pay R50.00 for two years to the families of the victims, to the two families. So they each had to pay, the three of them had to pay R25.00 each and that was to be paid to the families. Now the issue that we are still trying to find out about is that there is some dispute about the monies that some of the, the claim that not all the monies was actually paid and the last time our investigators were actually looking into that to establish what had actually happened, but that is as far as we were able to establish with that case Your Grace. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much. Any questions. MR MALAN yes. CHAIRPERSON Wynand Malan. MR MALAN Mrs Bopape, what is the situation with the monies that had to be paid? Have you received monies from these convicted people? MRS BOPAPE Yes, I did get that money. I do not know as to whether that was all. The police were bringing that money. Ultimately, I took his ID number to Sisigo. When I returned to the police they told us that our monies are ready. Then I came with my son to the Commissioner. They gave us that money. I do not know as to whether that was all which we needed to receive. They gave us R1 800.00. Thereafter somebody came and tell us that your sons monies are ready. Then how can we come. They told us that we should tell you that that is so. We came to the police station. When we MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 5 M L BOPAPE arrived we went again to the Commissioner. They told us to leave. They said that money is not here until now. Thereafter I took the ID there. Then they said when is this thing going to end. They said you are no more going to get money until now. I do not know as to whether that money I was given all the money which I was deserved for. MR MALAN Was the total amount of money that you received R1 800.00? MRS BOPAPE That was the last money I received. MR MALAN And that was the only money you received? MRS BOPAPE Do you mean, are you asking is that all? MR MALAN Yes. You never had any money before that? MRS BOPAPE (Not translated). MR MALAN Did you get it in one lumpsum? MRS BOPAPE Yes, they were bringing money in days. I do not know as to whether I did receive all the money I deserved. I was only satisfied when they said to me you are no more going to get any cent thereafter. MR MALAN Did you attend the court case? MRS BOPAPE No, I did not go to court. I only went to the police when I delivered my ID as whether is this the last payment. They were saying because your son was not married, you are no more going to get any money. Therefore I took the ID to Sisigo. MR MALAN And do you know the people who were found guilty? The three people, do you know them? MRS BOPAPE I do not know them. MR MALAN Thank you. MRS BOPAPE I thank you, Sir. CHAIRPERSON I did not understand when you were saying all the money. How much was the money you received? MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA 6 M L BOPAPE MRS BOPAPE I do not know because it was brought by the police. The other money I was taking them from post office. I do not know as to whether I did get all the money. What I know, the last payment I got was R1 800.00. CHAIRPERSON Is it over R1 800.00 the money you got. You mean the money you got, the first payment you got, did you get. MRS BOPAPE The other one is R2 000.00. CHAIRPERSON We will try to investigate to find out how much did you get. We thank you that you are here now. People were killed in all sides during that time, during that troubled times and you are the mother who fell prey, whose son was killed. The pain you hear is the person who is hurt by any parent. We bring comfort to you knowing that others who were killed were policemen because at that time people thought that the police were assisting those who were their enemies. We say God has given us this gracious time of independence hoping that those acts will never happen again in our country. We thank you, Mam. MRS BOPAPE I thank you, Sir. CHAIRPERSON I just wanted to say thank you to the organisers for the two seats that they have put a platform which enables you to see the witnesses which did not happen earlier. I think they deserve a nice little clap. DR ALLY Thank you Father. The next witness was also not here this morning, but just to check if the witness is here. MOUTSE HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA