hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-07-19 PIETERSBURG 1 MAHUDU MATHEE COMMITTEE 00570 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55734&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/pieters/mahudu.htm MAHUDU MATHEE COMMITTEE (sworn states) PROF MEIRING Mr Mahudu, you are going to take us back to a day many years ago, the 26th of May 1987 when you were arrested and taken to Burgersfort Prison and many things happened to you that day and afterwards. May I ask you to tell us all about that? MR MAHUDU They took me from my work place, it was on the 26th of May 1987, there were two policemen, a white and black policeman, they asked for me, we went home, they searched my house and found documents which they said were illegal as well as the poems which I wrote. From there they took me to Burgersfort Prison. When we arrived there they told me they knew that I was in the Sekukuland Executive Organisation. They asked me about the link between me and the one comrade who escaped. Where was he sleeping, who was taking care of him, the AK 47. They said we have hidden some AK 47's and we must give them up. The first evening they left and said they're going to fetch some other comrades in Phalaborwa and then we slept. The following day they took me to Togoyang next to a river called Stubatza. They put something black around my face, they undressed me and poured water on me, and I started feeling pains which I can't explain until they reached my private parts. At the same time they were asking me repeatedly where the AK 47's are and whom I am on the executive of the organisation where, where do they stay and who are those people who left or came back from exile. They repeated this while torturing me with electric shocks, then they stopped to give me a chance to think again, were the names which I gave them connected with the ones they know? Then they repeated the torture and repeated questioning for the next hour. From there they stopped, forced me to drink three or four cans of beer hoping to intoxicate me in order to make me spill the beans, but that did not happen. Next they used a rubber tube which blocked my nose and suffocated me for 10 to 20 minutes repeating their questions. After this they took me back to the police station where another group interrogated me upstairs. They told me that if I don't cooperate with them, if the National Party is still in government, they would take me to Lydenburg Prison and I would stay there with common law prisoners as long as the National Party was in power. They said if I cooperated with them, they would buy me a car of my choice and a house which I want as well as going to any university I chose and they would pay me every month if I give them information. I was a freelance journalist at that time, they said I could go anywhere with my journalism and can infiltrate any organisation if I give them the information, all these things would be given to me for my cooperation. I didn't agree with them. When the senior one left others came and threatened me that if I don't agree to work with them, I would be killed. They opened a safe of money and said that they would give me that money because my family is suffering and my family would live well after that. They then took me back to the cell and released me to go home. On the way they told me that I should know that where I stay and where I work there are a lot of informers who would inform them about my activities. They dropped me at home. The following week they came back one evening and picked me up and took me to Burgersfort again. They said that they had information that I was not at home, but this was not true. They were just beating around the bushes and they took me back again. They came back again saying there were pamphlets in the village and asked me who could have distributed them. I said that I saw them but had no idea who distributed them. Another group from Pretoria came with them when they returned to deal with me for not cooperating with them. They told me their names but I can't remember them. They told me that from that day, that they would send me to any university and promised me money if I cooperated with them, they were attempting to force me to be their informer, but I still refused. They took me back home and two days later, one white man arrived on a motorbike and he found people at home with family members. There were no documents and I thought I was safe because if I did something they would know everything within a minute. Towards June 16 we heard a rumour that they were going to detain us. They wanted to know our plans for June 16 because it was very near and I told them that I know nothing. They put us together as a family and told the family that I don't want to cooperate with them, refusing a car, a house, a university offer, and appealed to my mother to discuss it with me. When they met me on the way hiking to work they would take me and harass me asking what it is that I wanted, why was I a member of the UDF. When I got to work I found some of them there looking for me and I sat down with them. They wanted it to look to the public as if I worked with them. That is briefly what I want to say. PROF MEIRING Mr Mahudu, you've given a comprehensive report of what has been happening to you. May I ask a few questions, Sir, just to clarify a few issues. The first question is, you said that you were harassed many times by the police and you were imprisoned once, is that correct? The police harassed you many times, they took you to their office to interrogate you many times but you were only one time in prison for a number of days, is that correct? MR MAHUDU They used to take me to the police station many times, it was not the first time. PROF MEIRING But were you imprisoned also for a number of days? MR MAHUDU They took me to interrogate me, sometimes they would interrogate me, sometimes they would take me and take me back home. PROF MEIRING The second question I would like to ask is that you said that they gave the impression to the public that you worked with them because they took you around many times. Did your comrades or the public believe that? MR MAHUDU My comrades didn't believe that. PROF MEIRING So you didn't suffer because they thought you were a sell-out? MR MAHUDU I was not harassed, I was never harassed by the comrades because of that. PROF MEIRING The question I'd like to ask is, were you able to continue with your work, you say that you were working with the Education Department, did you lose your work because of the harassment, or were you able to continue with your work? MR MAHUDU I didn't lose my job. I consulted the nearest second inspector because they contacted him and told him that I was disturbing the people, and it was decided that it was not work related so there was no other way in which they were going to expel me and so they failed. PROF MEIRING My last question, you said that you want to go to university very much, and they made you an offer which you refused. Did you eventually succeed in going to university to get university training? MR MAHUDU Yes it was in 1994. I did B Admin at the University of the North. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much, those are the questions I want to ask, maybe some of my colleagues have questions too. MR MANTHATA I see here you refer to Patrick Masha, what do you think of Patrick Masha now, because at that time you could have thought that he had sold out and led to your arrest? MR MAHUDU I don't regard him as a sell-out, because I gave him some documents ...(indistinct) Rhodes from Cape Town, the other one was Focus, so that he should sell them in the branches but we had just launched the South African Youth Congress from Cape Town, so we were distributing those documents in the village and they found him in possession of those documents and he told them that he got them from me, so I can't say he's a sell-out. MR MANTHATA In your statement you talk about Comrade Si, who is he? MR MAHUDU This comrade, I know him by a code name only, I don't know his real names. MR MANTHATA I see here that you used to hold meetings wearing balaclavas, what was the reason? MR MAHUDU We didn't hold meetings with balaclavas but if there was a funeral of a comrade, we used to wear balaclavas when addressing people so that we could not be identified by the police. MR MANTHATA You've answered already that they told you that you are statement ...(indistinct) from that of Patrick, my question was going to be, did they read Patrick's statement to you. MR MAHUDU No they didn't read it to me. MR MANTHATA They forced you or made you to drink liquor, do you normally drink? MR MAHUDU Yes I do drink. MR MANTHATA Would you say you welcomed a drink or was it just that you had been forced by the police? MR MAHUDU No, the situation didn't allow me to drink, I was forced by the circumstances, because I didn't eat by then, I slept in prison without having any food, so there was no need to drink liquor. PROF MEIRING It appears they made several offers to take you to school provided you agreed to cooperate with them. Did you at any stage accede to this request? MR MAHUDU No I never thought of that. MR MANTHATA Did you in the same breath ever think that this could be told to some of your comrades, that the police could have said to your comrades, "Look he's at school because we maintain him?" MR MAHUDU I didn't understand the question? MR MANTHATA The question is, you had these several offers, did you at any stage suspect that they could con some of your comrades by saying, "Look he's at school because of us, we maintain him at school"? MR MAHUDU I don't think that they would have told the comrades that they took me to school, it was going to be a secret between me and them, so I don't think they were going to tell the comrades. That's how the system used to operate. MR MANTHATA Yes but at the same time it does operate by creating division, telling people that, look he is like this because of that, more especially if he's in a better state than others? MR MAHUDU They were sure that I had sensitive information because I didn't tell them about those who escaped. I'm not going to guarantee that. PROF MEIRING Here you say,"They told my mother that I was refusing their offer", did your mother know about your political activities and/or did your mother even support you? MR MAHUDU My mother knew about these things but to support me, was not that much. She was not used to harassment. PROF MEIRING Thank you. PROF MEIRING Dr Ally? DR ALLY Mr Mahudu, you've come here to speak about torture and electric shock, and I just want to ask you a few questions about that because it's quite important for us in the Commission when we do report about this to have as clear an idea as possible of the kinds of torture. So please bear with me when I ask these questions, I don't want to subject you to any further strain. You spoke about being electrocuted and on your private parts, how often was this done to you? MR MAHUDU Yes they did this a lot and they stuck to it for a long time. DR ALLY Any long term effects as a result of this kind of torture? MR MAHUDU Yes I suffered psychologically, it had a psychological effect. While I was asleep, I would hear dogs barking. If a car comes and stops or if a stranger comes home, I would go wild. If someone looks you have to think twice and your life-style changes. Every person you see, you start suspecting him. Even some friends and family members, if it took a long time, when you meet them sometimes you look at them suspiciously as if they are sent to you to get information from you or they can do anything to you which you don't expect. When I was treated by a doctor there was not much effect from the torture. DR ALLY Physically, has it affected you in any way. I know this may be a deeply personal question but has it affected you in any way? MR MAHUDU My emotions were affected.Being tortured without answering is no way in which one can be satisfied, so one is emotionally charged. DR ALLY And this rubber tubing kind of torture, can you just explain what kind of torture that is? MR MAHUDU It's red, I can't say how many centimetres they put on your head, it closes your mouth and your nose and they hold some other bag and press it but no air comes in or goes out. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much for sharing your story with us. I have no further questions. We wish you well, we will look into this and we will certainly report on this matter. Thank you very much for coming to us.