hrvtrans SUBMISSION, QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS, RONALD BENTING 1996-11-27 GUGULETU 7 POLLSMOOR 2 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55760&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/polls/benting.htm ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING Good afternoon sir. ADV POTGIETER A warm word of welcome to you. We are glad that you could make it after all. MR BENTING Just about. ADV POTGIETER But before we listen to your testimony - I am going to ask you just to take the oath. So if you will stand please. RONALD BENTING Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much, you may be seated. MR BENTING My colleague Ms Burton will facilitate your testimony, thank you. MS BURTON Good afternoon Mr Benting. MR BENTING Good afternoon to you. MS BURTON [indistinct] thank you very much for being here. You have an important story to tell us this afternoon and we are very grateful to you for coming. MR BENTING Yes. MS BURTON We would like you to tell us about that day on the 3rd of March 1986, when you and your colleague were driving the children to the Astra School. So please tell us what happened and what you saw. MR BENTING On my way, over the bridge, I was stopped. I came upon a lot of policemen standing in the road and what is it now - Army - they were dressed like that and I stopped - pulled my - I stopped the bus. There was a man lying in the road. According to me he was alive, but he never moved. And I said to her, she must give her something you know - Lewensessens or in that case, something to drink and this she did. And then we approached and we got to the school, where, after I have unloaded the children, to the various classes - and then I went to the office - at that time Mr Ralph, he was our principle - and then I spoke to him. Told him what happened, what we have seen and then in the office - at that time was our psychologist - Ms Saffier and she also heard what happened, and then she said to me that she is going to call in Mr Van der Merwe. I must speak to him. I must tell him what happened. And so the story came - that he came to me, and then the court case of Mr Weaver, that just gave testimony - they called - his lawyer called me to appear as witness and then I went to testify in court - what happened. I think that is about all. MS BURTON Thank you Mr Benting. So you had what was it 13 children in the car? MR BENTING 13 children and the housemother and myself. MS BENTON MR BENTING MS BURTON And then after that you were on numerous occasions asked to make statements or to testify? MR BENTING Yes, I had to make statements for the court case and then I had to make a statement again for the - what do they call it - the inquest. MS BURTON Inquest right. MR BENTING Which was held in Wynberg, the court. MS BURTON MR BENTING Yes. MS BURTON Is that the bridge that you came over and then where you reversed back? MR BENTING That is right, yes. MS BURTON Right, so what you saw was the events that took place along the N1 there - in front of you as you came over the bridge? MR BENTING That is right yes. MS BURTON Thank you - just to get the location right. MR BENTING MS BURTON Is there anything else you had forgotten or you would like to tell us? MR BENTING No - no. MS BURTON Thank you. MR BENTING That is actually what I have seen and what still remains in my mind. MS BURTON Thank you very much indeed. I have no more questions. CHAIRPERSON Any further questions, Denzil? ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson. Are you still working with Ms Smith or are you still having contact with her? MR BENTING Yes, we are still together, we still work together. ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING Yes quite. ADV POTGIETER And it appears that Ms Smith was not really able to take that? MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER We very - we very happy that - at least you are still able to have come and to come and repeat the story that you have told many times, but it was very important to get you here today, because behind you - seated in the first two or three rows are the next of kin, the family of people that was killed there. MR BENTING Yes I know that. ADV POTGIETER A lot of them have never heard the testimony that was given by witnesses like yourself and other people. So, at least today they can hear what you have been telling the court and then they can ask themselves the question - how did it happen that nothing came of this case - in the light of the testimony that was presented by that - that is the important thing of at least having you here and we are very grateful for that. MR BENTING Thank you sir. ADV POTGIETER Have you - have you made a statement to the police as well or have you only made statements to the attorneys? MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER We understand that - we have often give that same advice to our clients. MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING Yes, I can see so far, is only...[intervention] ADV POTGIETER Can you see there are two...[intervention] MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER I want to show you - can you see there are two circles with the G and an F written in at the bottom - towards the bottom? MR BENTING Yes, I see that yes. ADV POTGIETER Just underneath that intersection, now there is a line that goes from the circle. MR BENTING Yes, I see yes. ADV POTGIETER Now, where the line ends, where the line of the F ends - that is where the body of a young man was found. MR BENTING Was laying. ADV POTGIETER Was found or laying - now can you still remember whether that was about the position in which the person was which you saw being shot through the head? MR BENTING That was the Kombi that they were suppose to be in. ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING So, the man was lying nearer to the Kombi - more to the center of that. ADV POTGIETER MR BENTING You see, I had a marker. There was two trees standing and I parked my bus - if I am seated behind the wheel, then I can look over across in - I was facing - I was center between those two trees, that was my marker sir. ADV POTGIETER So, you could place your position of your vehicle by reference of those two trees? MR BENTING Correct. That was the mark, because I was never asked to get out, you see. That is - that is - and the man was lying more to the center of the road - to that Crossroads - in the center. ADV POTGIETER We are going to ask you - if it is not too much trouble for you - perhaps just to mark it on the plan. Perhaps somebody can give you a pen or something. There is a pen behind you. George has come to the rescue, perhaps you can mark it on the plan. MR BENTING ADV POTGIETER You can - just orientate yourself first of all - just make sure that you do have it. MR BENTING You see I did stop at this distance from the...[intervention] ADV POTGIETER From the intersection? MR BENTING Yes. ADV POTGIETER That was about where your bus was? MR BENTING Correct - correct. ADV POTGIETER Was stopped. MR BENTING Ja correct. ADV POTGIETER All right. MR BENTING And the man was lying here. ADV POTGIETER Very good - thank you. You have marked it on the plan, so we have an idea where the person was. And then just finally - Mr Benting - from where Ms Smith was sitting, could she also see what was happening in front of you? MR BENTING Yes, everybody could have seen. You see, the bus - it is a civilian 25 seater. It is a very high bus. You can see, everybody can see. Even there was a child sitting in front of me and he could also have seen. He even said to me - that he saw two people laying under the tree, which I never saw. They were shot in the head. That was Cliffie Witbooi. ADV POTGIETER That was Cliffie ja.? MR BENTING That was Clifford Witbooi. ADV POTGIETER Clifford Witbooi. MR BENTING He was - he was sitting right across me. I was driving - you see the front seat is two separate seats where the engine is in the center and he was sitting on the one side. ADV POTGIETER And the children you were transporting, are disabled children - are they? MR BENTING Correct, yes. Physically disabled yes. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Mr Benting. MR BENTING Thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Baie dankie. Thank you very much. - I just wanted to say Ms Smith - was a soft person, gentle person I mean and you - you - I think that maybe you are quite right that you felt perhaps as a man you might be - were expected to be stronger. I would want to say and I mean and I am sure you would agree, that in the nearly one - how many months now - eleven months that we have been listening - we have been struck, in fact, by the incredible strength of women. MR BENTING Correct yes. CHAIRPERSON Somebody has found out that usually they said - they have been looking at the evidence that has been brought before the Commission - usually when women come, they come to tell the story of what happened to somebody else. Mostly they say when men come, they come to tell about to tell about what happened to themselves. Now it is not the case with you. But generally and we want to pay our tribute to the women folk, but we want to give thanks also to you. That you have not been afraid - I mean in all these years that you have held and sought to speak the truth when it was dangerous. MR BENTING Correct, yes. CHAIRPERSON But our history is a history that is made up of those who should have protected society, being the enemies of society. We give thanks to God that we are here today. And that we can tell these stories and that we must not forget what has happened - so that we do not allow it to happen again. MR BENTING Correct yes. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much. MR BENTING Thank you.