hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-11-26 GUGULETU 7 POLLSMOOR 1 CT/00725 REVEREND VUYANI PAPA NOMALUNGELO FLORENCE PAPA SHOT BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55769&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/polls/ct00725.htm ADV POTGIETER Good afternoon Ms Papa. Who is the gentleman with you? MS PAPA He is a brother. ADV POTGIETER Mr Papa, would you also like to put on a headphone? Or can you follow the proceedings just like that? Are you all right. Welcome to you as well and welcome Ms Papa. I am going to ask you to take the oath, before we listen to your testimonies, I am going to please ask you to stand. I assume - I am sorry - I assume that you will be the only person who will be testifying? Okay, that is not necessary for your brother to take the oath. NOMALUNGELO FLORENCE PAPA Duly sworn states ADV POTGIETER You will be telling us about your late son, Vuyani Papa. MS PAPA Yes. ADV POTGIETER Who got shot and killed, this was in the time of this march, this Pollsmoor March that we have been hearing about, from the witnesses who testified before you - is that correct? MS PAPA Ja my son Vuyani, he was from a shop - he went to the shop to buy bread. Half a bread and he got shot when he was coming from the shop. I was not there at the time. ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] and if you feel a bit better, you can talk again, there is no hurry. MS PAPA I was on my work at that day. When I came back from work, Vuyani was not at home. I asked where he was and they told me he went to the shop at nine to buy bread and he was not back at that time. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Ms Pama - I am going to ask you a few questions to get some information which can assist us in looking into the matter. Your son, what was he doing, was he working, was he at school or what was he doing? MS PAPA He was working for the newspaper. ADV POTGIETER Which newspaper was that? MS PAPA I am not sure, but he was working - he was delivering newspapers in the streets. ADV POTGIETER I see, he was delivering papers. And, he was not married was he? MS PAPA No, he was not married. He was only 16 years of age. ADV POTGIETER Now, was he involved in politics at all? MS PAPA No, he was not involved ADV POTGIETER MS PAPA No, he was not involved in politics. ADV POTGIETER From - from what you could find out, was there anybody that saw what happened - how Vuyani was shot? MS PAPA He was shot in the head - three times in the head. ADV POTGIETER So he was shot three times in the head? MS PAPA Yes, he was shot three times in the head. ADV POTGIETER Now were there any witnesses that saw that - that saw the shooting? MS PAPA No, there were no witnesses. We just saw him in the mortuary - found him in the mortuary. ADV POTGIETER Did you - did you say that you learned that he was still alive for a while and that he was in Conradie Hospital? MS PAPA Yes, he was in Conradie Hospital. He died on Wednesday and then I saw him on Wednesday in the mortuary. On Monday he was still alive and we went there to look for him, but they told us he was not there. ADV POTGIETER So the Wednesday was the 7th day? MS PAPA Yes, it was the 7th day. He went home on Thursday and we saw him on Wednesday on the mortuary. ADV POTGIETER Now, you went to court and this Barnard was one of the police that was giving evidence. MS PAPA Yes, Barnard was there and the employees - people who were working there. There were no other people except Barnard and the people who were working in court. ADV POTGIETER This Barnard, was he that policeman that was very well known in the townships during those riots in [indistinct] MS PAPA Yes, he is the one. ADV POTGIETER Now what did he tell the court - what happened? MS PAPA Barnard? ADV POTGIETER Yes. MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER Did - did Barnard allege that your son was doing anything wrong? MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER Were there any other police that gave evidence in the court? MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER Now you - you went to court on three different occasions? MS PAPA Yes. ADV POTGIETER During that time you were in court, did the Magistrate make any findings? Did he say who was responsible? MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER MS PAPA No, they never contacted me. ADV POTGIETER Did you ever go to see an attorney to help you? MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER And did you make any case against the police? MS PAPA No, I did not open a case, but I was just called to Wynberg. I did not see who shot my son, but I saw him in Wynberg Court, I did not know him. ADV POTGIETER Have you got any other children apart from Vuyani? MS PAPA Yes, I have other children ADV POTGIETER How many have you got? MS PAPA I have two children ADV POTGIETER How is the death of Vuyani affected you and the family? MS PAPA It affected us and I am still not well, even today. ADV POTGIETER MS PAPA ADV POTGIETER