hrvtrans INTRODUCTION AND SHOWING OF VIDEO 1996-11-28 GUGULETU 7 POLLSMOOR 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55781&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/polls/video.htm ADV NTSEBEZA I think the witnesses should come - a session of the hearings and today is going to be a day on which we shall hear witnesses who have been subpoenaed to appear. And let me say from the very start that I am particularly pleased that we have the gentleman who have responded to the subpoenas to come and I would like to welcome you to this session and I would like to assure you that the session will be conducted in as a professionally manner as possible and we are very pleased that you have indicated your co-operation by being here to start with. And I would like to take the view that, that is the sort of spirit that is going to prevail throughout the proceedings. I have no doubt that it in fact will be sort of spirit. So very welcome to you gentleman. Superintendent WILLIAM RUDOLF LIEBENBERG CORNELIUS ADOLF JANSE ODENDAL Senior Superintendent JOHANNES GEORGE CHRISTOFFEL KLEYN Senior Superintendent JOHN MARTIN STERRENBERG Detective Inspector ANDRE GROBBELAAR Inspector BERTRAM OSWALD MOGGEE Detective Inspector KAREL BOTHMA Detective Inspector LOUIS FERDINAND COETZEE Senior Superintendent LEONARD KNIPE I would like to emphasize that at this session, in these proceedings, now findings are going to be made, this is not a trial in the sense that immediate findings will be made. We will be receiving evidence, and we will obviously as a panel be putting questions to the witnesses as they testify. But it is not intended to be an advisable l process, the outcome of which should be for us to make a finding today. I will particularly want to address that to the witnesses if that is something that will put them at ease. What the Commission is mandated to do is to establish the truth and the various methods that have been employed especially around this particular issue, at an attempt to get at that truth. And of course truth is relative, it depends from what perspective anyone sees it. And I think the attempt today is to try and show all the perspectives. Yesterday you had the witnesses perspectives, and I am sure that is a perspective of the witnesses that will be called today. But I want to emphasize that we are not going to make a finding today, there will be no verdict passed at the end of today. But there certainly will be an attempt by this panel to clarify issues that have come in the testimony as well as in the footage material that is going to be shown. And without further ado I will therefore call for the video to be shown. Indeed let me just warn that some of the visuals are going to be very bad. VIDEO IS SHOWN VERSLAGGEWER PRAAT OP DIE VIDEO VERSLAGGEWER Ons staan nou hier by Sersant Bellingham wat ook by hierdie operasie betrokke was. Adjudant kan u net vir ons vertel wat gebeur het asseblief. SERS BELLINGHAM Ek het agter in daardie Datsun polisievoertuig gesit en ek was besig om met - net uit te klim toe 'n patroon van die oorhandigde wapen by die - deur die voorruit trek en my wapen en so in die gesig tref en daarna het ons maar oorgegaan tot aksie net. VERSLAGGEWER Was u deur die patroon van die wapen in die gesig getref, of van die dele wat van die vuurwapen afgespring het. SERS BELLINGHAM Ja dis van die skrapnel van die wapen af, van die dele van die wapen. VERSLAGGEWER As u praat van die voertuig waaruit u geklim het, is dit die geel Datsun voertuig? SERS BELLINGHAM Ja dis die geel Datsun ek het agter ook in die middel gesit en - terwyl die ander sersant besig was om te bestuur. VERSLAGGEWER Is dit die magasyn van die voertuig - van die vuurwapen? SERS BELLINGHAM Ja dit was die - so daar moes plus-minus twee skote deurgegaan het. VERSLAGGEWER Die swartman - die swartman met die RBG5 Russiese handgranaat nog steeds by hom. Daar kan baie duidelik gesien word waar die haelgeweer korrels sy liggaam in hierdie geval sy gesig en op sy - sy regerkant van sy bors gepenetreer het. ONBEKEND Waar is die mense wat hierdie mense moet blok - ag nee - ag nee man. VERSLAGGEWER Nog een van die doppies wat hier gesien kan word. ONBEKEND Dit maak nie saak nie - dit maak nie saak nie, hier is 'n misdaadondersoek toneel hier - adjudant gaan keer vir my daai mense asseblief. VERSLAGGEWER Die [onduidelik] Kommissaris, Brigadier CA Swart en Brigadier Van Staden besig om die toneel te besoek. Eers die magasyn wat afgebreek en na veiligheidsredes [onduidelik] die vuurwapens onder hom uitgetrek word en dan ...[intervention] ADV NTSEBEZA PEOPLE ARE HYSTERICAL - CRYING AND SCREAMING ADV NTSEBEZA MEETING ADJOURNS ON RESUMPTION ADV NTSEBEZA But an elaborate amount of work was done by - in particular Commissioner Wildschut to indicate to them that they need not see the footage. But I am told that they insisted that they want to know and again they were warned that in an endeavor to want to know they might get hurt emotionally and we regret the dramatics that have followed, but we also understand why it should be so. I am saying so because it may well be said that the Commission acted irresponsibly in this regard and insensitively. We want to place it on record and in public that extensive care was taken to make sure that they fully understand the consequences of watching a video of this nature. I therefore want to appeal to everyone all in sundry, that these proceedings should never be allowed to degenerate into a gigantic vast, because they are not intended to be so. It is a responsible Commission and the people who sit with me on the panel, are obviously in agreement with me, that we cannot, we dare not - we cannot afford to allow the proceedings to degenerate. I say so on the assumption that what I have been told is true, and I say so to assure also those who were the subject or the object of this missiles to be assured that the proceedings shall be carried under the strictest observance of the corm that befits the Commission. I understand that the two gentleman have then elected to wait in the waiting room until such time as their evidence is heard. I need to recognize the presence in our midst of Mr Brand an attorney from De Klerk en Van Gend, if you could stand Mr Brand, so that people can see you. Mr Brand is representing five of the witnesses today, Mr Liebenberg, Mr Odendal, Mr Sterrenberg, Mr Grobbelaar, Mr Moggee. Very welcome Mr Brand, I am sorry we could not meet earlier so that I could place you on record at the beginning of the proceedings. MR BRAND Thank you. ADV NTSEBEZA VIDEO IS SHOWN AGAIN VERSLAGGEWER Daar word nou weer aan die man gehaak om die lyk om te trek. ONBEKEND Sewe terroriste sneuwel in Kaapstad. VERSLAGGEWER Die lyk word nou deursoek, die [onduidelik] se gesig nou van naby. ONBEKEND 'n Magasyn leeg geskiet - hier is nog 'n magasyn op plus een vol magasyn, die magasyn is vol. VERSLAGGEWER Die AK47 geweer wat by die laaste lyk gekry is. Jy kan duidelik sien dat daar twee van die magasynne leeg is en een magasyn is vol. Nog steeds op die 3de Maart 1986 by nadere ondersoek is daar vasgestel dat hierdie lyk ook 'n RBG5 handgranaat daar tussen sy bene het. Die handgranaat is eers gevind nadat die lyk gevisenteer was. ADV NTSEBEZA I believe this is the end of the material that is relevant and germane to this but can the technician switch it off now so that we can go on with the rest of the proceedings. VIDEO IS SWITCHED OFF