hrvtrans 1 P LERUTLA, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-14 PRETORIA 3 PHILLISTUS LERUTLA JB00756 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55783&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/pretoria/1lerutla.htm DR BORAINE Ms Lerutla, can you hear me alright? You can? Loud and clear? MS LERUTLA Yes, I can hear you. DR BORAINE Good. Can I welcome you very warmly as a witness before the Commission. You have somebody with you. Could you please tell us who that is? MS LERUTLA She is my aunt. DR BORAINE I would like to welcome you very warmly as well. We are very pleased to see you and thank you very much for coming. You are going to tell us about something that happened to you. Everybody so far has told us about something that happened to someone else. So this is quite different and in a moment you are going to tell us your story, but before you do, as you know, every witness has to take the oath. So I will ask you to please stand. PHILLISTUS LERUTLA (Duly sworn in, states). DR BORAINE Thank you very much. Please be seated. Ms Lerutla, one of us usually tries to assist the witness and in this case it will be me. So I am going to ask you now to please start your story and tell us what happened to you and could you speak up so that everybody can hear. MS LERUTLA On the 21st in 1985 we the residents of Mamelodi went to a meeting of the City Council. When we had this meeting we heard about the rent problems. We were PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 P LERUTLA going there to listen to our leaders regarding this rent problem and there someone came up who told us that we had to disperse within five minutes. At that time helicopters were flying around above us before this five minutes had elapsed and they started shooting. When the shooting went on, a teargas was shot besides me. Thereafter I was very wet on my skirt and when I looked up I saw it was blood and I could not walk at that time. Then I crawled to the office. There were people who I asked to wipe the blood from me and they did exactly that and bandaged my leg. Thereafter they took me home. After taking me home they asked me to put off the clothes I was wearing because they were full of blood. Thereafter they took me to Mamelodi Hospital. At Mamelodi Hospital we were admitted because there were some people who were injured and they transferred us to Kalafong and we were operated there. After being operated we went to sleep. After sleeping on the following day the doctors asked me and they said to me you must be aware that you have a bullet in your left leg. What you must know is that we are not able to remove that bullet because where the bullet is situated, it is situated between a bone and a muscle. Even at present the bullet is still in my leg. I have been attending medical treatment up until I gave up. Thereafter I could feel that this leg had started paining. Especially after walking for a long distance this leg really gives me problems. Even at work I still struggle with this leg. The problem of this leg is what gives me the most worry because I do not how long will I be able to walk with this bullet in my leg. Sometimes I sit down because of this pain and ask myself what is going to happen to me as PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 P LERUTLA time goes on. I do not know where I am going to end up with this bullet in my leg. I end up thinking that I am going to end up being paralysed and I do not know what is going to happen to me as time goes on. DR BORAINE Thank you very much for a very clear outline of what happened to you. It happened more than ten years ago and, clearly, it is still very, very vivid for you. I only have a few questions. You mentioned earlier that someone had given the crowd or the demonstrators five minutes to disperse. Who actually gave that announcement? Can you remember? MS LERUTLA What I remember is that I heard people talking about that it was the Mayor who told us that. I heard a voice from the Hippo saying that we have to disperse within five minutes. DR BORAINE Now in your statement to one of our staff, our statement takers, you mention that his name was Mr Ndlazi. Is that correct? MS LERUTLA Yes, it is so, as I heard the people saying. DR BORAINE Thank you and you say that before the five minutes had gone, the police started shooting tearsmoke or teargas into the crowd? Is that right? MS LERUTLA Yes, it is so. DR BORAINE And then whilst that was happening and people were running away, the police opened fire and you were shot. MS LERUTLA Yes, it is true. I was shot in my leg. DR BORAINE Were there any other people who were shot that day? MS LERUTLA Yes, there were some. DR BORAINE Did any of them die? MS LERUTLA Yes, some of them died. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 P LERUTLA DR BORAINE Now, you were taken to hospital where you stayed about a month. Is that right? MS LERUTLA Yes, it is so. DR BORAINE And whilst you were there you were visited by the police? MS LERUTLA They only came once together with Mr Ndlazi. Thereafter they never came back. DR BORAINE I see. Now, in 1988 you received a letter asking you to go to court in Pretoria North. Is that correct. MS LERUTLA Yes, it is so. DR BORAINE And you made a statement on that day? MS LERUTLA Yes, I made a statement. DR BORAINE And what was the result of the court case? MS LERUTLA We made and statement and thereafter they told us that they will call us again in 1988. Since then nothing had happened. DR BORAINE So you have had no visit from anyone or no letters about going back to court? MS LERUTLA No. DR BORAINE Okay. Let me just ask you one last question. Just a little bit more about your injury. You are obviously very worried about that and the bullet is still in the leg. Are you receiving any treatment at all now? MS LERUTLA No, I am not receiving any treatment at all. I am still moving around with this bullet in my leg. DR BORAINE And it does not, they do not seem to be able to do anything about that? MS LERUTLA What they told me is that I would be paralysed if they removed this bullet from my leg. DR BORAINE And are you able to do any work at all? Are PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 P LERUTLA you employed? MS LERUTLA Yes, it is true, I am working at present, but I have to put up some effort in order to get to work or to keep on working. DR BORAINE So the leg worries you a great deal in your mind as well as in your body? MS LERUTLA Yes, it is so. I am worried about this bullet in my leg. DR BORAINE Thank you very much for your testimony this afternoon. I am going to hand you back to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Russell Ally. MR ALLY Mr Lerutla, can you tell us a little about this protest march. You say it was against rent payment. Was this a big march, were there a lot of people in the march? MS LERUTLA Almost all people in Mamelodi had gone out to protest or to engage in this protest march. MR ALLY And do you know who organised the march? Was it called by any structure? A civic, Mamelodi Civic or the UDF or. MS LERUTLA What I remember is that, I cannot remember well whether it was the Mamelodi Civic people who called the meeting or the protest march, but we were told that there was going to be a protest march, because it was a long time ago that is why I cannot remember well. MR ALLY And can you tell us a little about the mood of the people who were marching. Was there, were they, they were marching to the local Municipal offices. What was the mood like? Were people angry, did they have weapons or arms or what was actually happening amongst the crowd that day? MS LERUTLA They had nothing on them, no weapons like stones or such things. What worried them was the rent issue PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 P LERUTLA because the rent had no fixed price at that time. People could not understand what was happening regarding this matter. That is why we went to the Mayor to address this issue of an unfixed rent rate. MR ALLY And when you arrived at the building was there any, from the crowd itself, did they try to storm this Municipal office? Did they try to force their way in or what was the mood of the crowd then when you arrived at the place where the Mayor was? MS LERUTLA These people carried themselves in a well-mannered way. MR ALLY Thank you. MS LERUTLA May I add to what I have said? MR ALLY Certainly. MS LERUTLA Okay. What surprises me is that we are being told, someone is being instructed to kill us whilst we are going to discuss a rent issue. I would like that person who killed me to be brought forward so that I can see him because I do not know how I am going to end up supporting my children because I suspect that I will become ill later because of this bullet that is lodged in my leg. I do not know why this person shot at me because we were only going to discuss the rent issue. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Any other questions? Lady, we thank you for coming here and we will also try to investigate as to how this incident happened and to find out who gave instructions to perpetrate such bad deeds. We will try to find out who the perpetrators are and come and question them, but all the same we thank you for being here and we are not sure, maybe there are those who might help you to extract the bullet from your leg which seemingly is PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 P LERUTLA giving you problems. We thank you for coming here. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG