hrvtrans 1 E H F KLOK, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-13 PRETORIA 2 ELIZABETH HESTER FAITH KLOK JB00690 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55793&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/pretoria/klok.htm MRS KLOK I was married to Jacob Johannes Ras who was working for the South African Air Force. He was involved in a car bomb explosion which happened on the 20th of May 1983. In this event 19 people were injured and, 19 people died and 200 were injured. At that stage I was married to him for 17 years. We had two sons. They were respectively 12 and 3 years old at the time. My husband's death was a major shock due to the gruesomeness of the explosion. CHAIRPERSON Take your time Mrs Klok. If you want to rest for a few minutes, that is find. Only continue when you are ready. We are waiting for you. Do not feel that you have to speak if you feel you are not ready to speak. MRS KLOK The deed for me, I take this as a senseless deed and can by no means be explained. I feel that the Commission should investigate this matter in depth. As a direct result of my husband's death my family life has been totally disrupted. Since then I have suffered major depression as well as multiple sclerosis. I still receive psychological and medical treatment and due to this I have been declared medically unfit and because of this have been dismissed from my place of employment. My ill health after my husband's death also adversely affected my children's education. They are unable to come to terms with the circumstances surrounding my husband's death. I expect that PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 E H F KLOK whoever was responsible for the organisation and planning and doing of this deed should be brought to book. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Mrs Klok. I know this is very difficult for you, but if you do not mind I would just like to ask you a few questions just to help us get a broader picture and to also give you a chance maybe to express your views on some of the work and the issues which are of concern to the Truth Commission. You were not here earlier this morning because you had another appointment, but I did indicate that in the next week, beginning on Monday, there are going to be submissions by all the political parties to the Truth Commission. The National Party, Pan Africanist Congress, the African National Congress and we are hoping that in those submissions the political parties will reveal some of their actions, the things they did, explain why they did it, take responsibility. So on your, one of the requests that you have put to the Commission in your statement that you want this to be investigated with, in-depth by the Truth Commission. We are hoping that in these submissions a lot of what, a lot of the questions which you want answered, will be answered, but we will in any event be carrying on with our investigations and trying to get as much of the truth as possible. So that is one commitment that can be made. I wanted to ask you, we have had many people from, victims from the Church Street bombing come forward and speak about things that happened to them and also to family members, mothers. In your statement you say that you regard what happened as "'n uiters ernstige skending van menseregte", as a serious and gross human rights violation PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 E H F KLOK that can never ever be justified and I do not think that anyone will, necessarily, disagree with you, but is it possible, do you think, that this can be seen against the backdrop of the conflicts of the past and if never justified, at least we can get some understanding and maybe that we can learn some lessons from it? I would like you to just give your honest feelings on that matter. MRS KLOK Could I get the question in Afrikaans please? INTERPRETER I have given the question in Afrikaans, but I think it is not on channel one. CHAIRPERSON You said that what happened was a gross violation of human rights and I do not blame you, but is it possible to, in the backdrop of what happened in the past, and I am not saying that we are necessarily making good of this, but can we perhaps move forward and can you give me an opinion here? MRS KLOK I understand the background. CHAIRPERSON Does it help you to understand what happened on that day? MRS KLOK I understand very well what happened on that day. It is things that happened and there is no way of changing that. CHAIRPERSON And in terms of the question of amnesty, how do you feel about that? How do you feel about the fact that people would then come forward and tell the truth? How do you feel about amnesty. MRS KLOK I feel very sorry for those people. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Mrs Klok. If there are any further questions. MR MALAN Mrs Klok, can I ask you, can I just follow-up on what Dr Ally just asked? It is apparent that you are still PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 E H F KLOK constantly suffering from this trauma. Is it something that has not passed yet. MRS KLOK No, it has not passed yet. It is very difficult to live with the death. I got, I remarried. I am very happily married and I thank my husband for his understanding because I have a lot of medical problems and I have a lot of pain. MR MANTHATA Yes, you also mentioned that in your statement, but what I really want to hear and it is not the content of the statement, but how does one really put this behind us because it is so easy to say that it is passed and that we cannot change that, but it actually does not pass. We only say that. Have you actually ever thought of ways by which one can help you and other people? People who are also victims of such human rights violations. Have you ever thought of something that could be done? MRS KLOK No, I have not really thought of anything. MR MALAN You are still receiving treatment for your depression? Is there still a link to this incident? MRS KLOK After the incident I could no longer sleep and since then I have been treated by psychologists and I was there again this morning and apart from that I developed multiple sclerosis which all goes hand in hand with this depression. MR MALAN So what you in fact expect is that the people who were involved in this explosion that they should be held responsible for their deeds. Can you just tell us what, in fact, you are saying with that? MRS KLOK Well, I made my statement and it is up to you people. You know your work, it is up to you to decide what to do with that. I now hand it over to you. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 E H F KLOK MR MALAN Can I ask you another question? Was there ever any compensation paid to you? MRS KLOK Yes, I did receive money from the Casualty Commissioner. It is very little though. I am receiving some grant for my son who is currently 17 and I will receive this until he reaches the age of 18. MR MALAN So he is currently 17? MRS KLOK Yes, he is 17. MR MALAN Are you still receiving a pension from the Defence Force? MRS KLOK Yes, I am, but it is very little because he did not have many years of service. MR MALAN How old was your husband when he died? MRS KLOK He was 38 when he died. MR MALAN Thank you very much. You said that we know our job and that we know what to do. We would like to express our sympathy and empathy with you. Thank you very much. MR MANTHATA Thank you Mrs Klok. My questions you, as it has been pointed out, is so much in a process to try to understand the past. My question would be for how long had Mr Klok been in the force, or Mr Ras, how long had he been in the force until he met his death? MRS KLOK He did work in the Air Force, then he left and he went back again and I think that in total he only had two to three years service. MR MANTHATA How many sons had you had with Mr Ras before this accident? MRS KLOK Two boys. MR MANTHATA And how old? MRS KLOK The one is 26 now and the other one is 17. MR MANTHATA Yes. My question is related to, more PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 E H F KLOK especially, to the one of 26, that I am sure he had to go into what we call National Service. MRS KLOK No, he is in the Air Force. MR MANTHATA Oh, he went into the National Service. MRS KLOK Yes, into the Air Force, yes. MR MANTHATA In the Air Force. MRS KLOK That is right. MR MANTHATA Okay. Were they at any stage able, in a very relaxed fashion, to talk about their exploits in the force. That is what action have they had and against who? MRS KLOK My eldest son never really spoke to me about it. It is only the smaller one that spoke to me. He often asked me when his father was coming back. It was a very difficult to explain to a child that your father is never to return. MR MANTHATA Thank you Mrs Klok. No further questions. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Mrs Klok that you came. Your statement and evidence is exceptionally important to us. It is very important for the work of the Commission. It is important to be able to put everything in an entire perspective. There were a lot of victims, there were a lot of people involved and we thank you very much that you were able to come here today. We thank you very much that you came. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG