hrvtrans 1 J N MAFUYA, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-13 PRETORIA 2 JOYCE NOCAWE MAFUYA JB00994 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55800&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/pretoria/mafuya.htm CHAIRPERSON Mrs Mafuya, I am going to assist you with your testimony, but before that I will just ask you to take the oath please. MR MALAN Mrs Mafuya, will you please raise your right hand. JOYCE NOCAWE MAFUYA (Duly sworn in, states). MR MALAN Thank you. You may sit down. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Mafuya, you are coming to speak to us about your son Godfrey who was shot and wounded in 1985. I am going to ask you in your own words, in your own time to relate your story to us. MRS MAFUYA In 1985 on the 7th of December, it was during riots, they shot my son with eight bullets. He was at that time 15 years. Where he was, it was at the back opposite of our yard. I heard the gunshots. They shot multiple times. Then the Hippo came to fetch me. Before I saw this Hippo at the gate then the policemen said they are warning me. That is when I left with them on foot. I refused to get inside the Hippo. I want to see where my son is lying. When I got there I found the ambulance and Mr Mongigomo from the Sowetan Newspaper. They took my son. When I tried to board the ambulance they refused. They took him along to Kalafong Hospital. I followed them in a taxi. When I arrived at Kalafong he was transferred to H F Verwoerd Hospital. When PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 J N MAFUYA I arrived at H F Verwoerd Hospital following the ambulance I learned that he was in the Intensive Care Unit. During the night when I went to H F Verwoerd he was in the Intensive Care Unit. He was there for two months. They transferred him back to Kalafong Hospital. That is where he died in 1987 on the same 7th day of December 1987. He was crippled by then. I use to feed him, he was on a wheelchair. There were still two bullets in his head and two on his body. They only extracted four bullets from him. His hands were lame. I use to feed him, wash him and then take him back for treatment to the hospital until he became very ill and then they could not bring him to me during weekends and also during Christmas. He passed away on the 7th of December 1987. His body was swollen, his head also. They took him to Kalafong Mortuary. On Monday I wanted to inform Mr Ledwaba who is an Undertaker. Then him took him on the very same Monday to his mortuary together with the documents. We tried to arrange for the funeral thinking that we will bury him on Saturday at half past 12. On Thursday the police came at Ledwaba when informed by the Sowetan that the person who sued the State for R250 000,00 has died. Then they rushed, the police rushed to Ledwaba Police Station and then they took the body and said to Mr Ledwaba if he does not give them the body they would stop his business. Then they wanted him to release the body so that they take it away. Ledwaba sent someone to us and said the police arrived and they forcefully took the body. I tried to refuse, but they did it without my permission. I told them that I had a lawyer. The lawyer investigated, phoned several times even to the Government Mortuary. They did not PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 J N MAFUYA know about my son. Friday at 12 o' clock the police phoned the undertaker to come and get my sons's body because he is at the Government Mortuary. The undertaker said he is at the Government Mortuary and then we phoned the lawyer. They collected they body at the Government Mortuary. The lawyer got inside the mortuary. When he left they asked for identification. They, he started to stand next to the window to identify they body. They said they will bring him on a stretcher. They did cut him to extract the bullets, even on his feet were cut because on the wheelchair he could not sit straight, but he leaned on the wheelchair. We took him to the Ledwaba's Mortuary and Ledwaba said because it is already late, this boy is already bleeding and then I would set my fridge so that we can prepare him, but we will not bring him at five o' clock, but at seven o' clock the evening because he is bleeding excessively. We agreed on that. On Friday at seven o' clock Ledwaba brought him to the house. They did put in some cottonwools where he bled or where he had cracks. At half past seven there were a lot of soldiers around the house. They were inside the tent, some of them inside the house watching on us. The whole night we are within the company of these soldiers inside the tent. They are watching on us. On Saturday at 12 o' clock there were police who came to the house and said to me it is now time, you must bury your son. We went out. At the front it was a Hippo and two private cars for the police and the hearse and the family car. There was a bus. They never gave people a chance to get on board the bus. People feared to board the bus. When we arrived at the graveyard they PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 J N MAFUYA said the bus that was accompanying us must get inside the cemetery yard and then they started locking the gates. We buried him whilst they were watching on us. People, when we arrived at the house, they never had food. They said now we are going to throw away the food that you prepared for the funeral. Since 1985 I started suing the State. My case was only heard two times in a year. It ended in 1989. In 1989 it only, I appeared before the court for eight times. On the fifth day Mr Holiday who was a policeman accompanied by his lawyer did not arrive at court. The Judge now said these people are not arriving at court. They sent a cheque for R36 000.00. That is how the case ended. DR ALLY Thank you very much. Mrs Mafuya, if you do not mind, I would just like to ask you a few questions. Just to start where you ended. You said they sent a cheque for R36 000.00. Who is the they who gave the cheque to you? MRS MAFUYA I am referring to the police. The police sent a cheque for R36 000,00. They took R2 000,00. I received R34 000,00. Then they said do you want us to give the R34 000,00 for the tombstone. Then they said, they did destruct or destroy the tombstone. I tried to fix the tombstone with some glue or some things, cement sort of. DR ALLY So it was the South African Police that they gave you this cheque? MRS MAFUYA It is so. DR ALLY The Attorney, who was he, what is the name of the Attorney. MRS MAFUYA It was Advocate Cells and Mrs Gitch. DR ALLY You mentioned Constable Holiday. MRS MAFUYA Yes, Sir. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 J N MAFUYA DR ALLY Did Constable Holiday actually admit that he was the one who shot or how do you get to this name? MRS MAFUYA It was the first time that I saw him at court. Even to hear his name as the person who did shoot my son in such a gruesome manner, asking myself. I thought he was shot by a lot of policemen, but it transpired that he was the only person because the son tried to run and hide, but he was following him until my son fell down. DR ALLY Now you said that on the day that your son was shot, on the 7th of December 1985 by the Riot Squad, you say that there, that there was rioting in the township of Atteridgeville. Can you just tell us a little bit about what was happening on that day? MRS MAFUYA On that day it was a funeral of a certain school child. He was one of the Comrades, but I am not sure as Comrades did attend the funeral. DR ALLY So it was a funeral and did anything happen ... MRS MAFUYA Yes. DR ALLY ... on that day besides the funeral? What actually happened that led to the riot, the police being active in the area? MRS MAFUYA The policemen destroyed a lot of people's houses. People said that the policemen destroyed the furniture inside the house. They started taking people out from inside the houses and Mr Holiday when he arrived at court said my son had a hand grenade in his possession and he threw it at the Hippo. Then if he had a hand grenade how many policemen died on that day. That was my question and Mr Holiday could not answer that question. DR ALLY He definitely said hand grenade, not petrol bomb or. So was that ... PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 J N MAFUYA MRS MAFUYA Yes. DR ALLY ... hand grenade. MRS MAFUYA He said hand grenade. He tried defending himself in that manner during the court processions. DR ALLY And your son got, he was 15 years old at the time. Was he involved in any of the political organisations in youth structures or street committees or UDF structures? Do you know? MRS MAFUYA No, he did not have any affiliation with such organisations. He was in any organisation or he was not involved in the Comrades or politics. DR ALLY But he was attending that funeral that day? Is that correct? Was he part of the funeral procession or was he just one of the bystanders? MRS MAFUYA They took him from the house which is the back opposite from our house. They went along the street taking people from inside the houses. My son said that as they were hiding themselves from certain houses. They took them out and started beating him and he told them to go home. Then Mr Holiday started shooting at him. DR ALLY Now you said to us that your son did not die immediately. That he actually died two years later almost on the same day that he was shot on the seventh of December ... MRS MAFUYA Yes. DR ALLY ... two years later. Now during that period after he was shot and he died, your son, he lived with you and you use to take him to hospital or was he at the hospital all the time and you use to go and visit him at the hospital? MRS MAFUYA He was still at the hospital and he voluntarily asked to be at home during weekends. They would release him PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 J N MAFUYA on Friday and on Monday I would take him back until he could not manage to come home during weekends. He was seriously ill by then. His head was swollen, he was supported with oxygen and even his stomach was swollen. DR ALLY Now, your son, did he ever tell you in his own words what actually happened on that day when he was shot? Did he give you his account? MRS MAFUYA He knew nothing. Probably he was unconscious. I asked him what happened. Even people from the nearby houses were witnesses. Then they told, they said what happened with my son on that day. DR ALLY But he never gave an account himself of what happened that day? MRS MAFUYA No, he did not. DR ALLY Thank you Mrs Mafuya. I am going to ask if there are any other Commissioners who want to ask questions. Tom. MR MANTHATA Mrs Mafuya, before the burial of one, this student, did you ever hear of any student activities in Atteridgeville which were in conflict with the police procedures or councillors? MRS MAFUYA Comrades activities which laid procedures as how to conduct burials of students at that time. MR MANTHATA My question was did you hear that youth of that time were against or in conflict with policemen and committee councillors where their houses were destroyed or they were killed because you said this was during riots. MRS MAFUYA This councillors houses were burnt during those times because this, I did witness such activities. MR MANTHATA Were they destroyed by the youth or who destroyed the houses? MRS MAFUYA I can say it is boys or youth who destroyed PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 J N MAFUYA such houses. MR MANTHATA Can we now say the policemen looked for such youths? MRS MAFUYA Yes, they did. The policemen wanted to find these people. MR MANTHATA But now this youth were either COSAS or youth league members. Did they look for them because they wanted to know their membership and where they reside? MRS MAFUYA They did not want to know about their membership, they just mentioned the word comrades. In their comrades they wanted to find them. If they find you they would ask you to which organisation are you affiliated? MR MANTHATA We know that youth who were arrested, they could say that comrades that they worked with because they could actually give out names of comrades that they worked with because they worked in the same offices. Sorry, what I am saying is that they have their names in the books, in the offices. They would be given names of such people by those who arrest them timeously. MRS MAFUYA I cannot testify as to that. MR MANTHATA What I am trying to prove here is that, was it appropriate arrest any other youth on the street because they would know the names of the youth who were affiliated to such organisations to which they said, they claimed that they burn houses of such people. MRS MAFUYA They would arrest any youth or boy and arrest them. MR MANTHATA At that time could you distinguish between a policeman, a soldier? Could you say this was a policeman or a soldier of these people, did they perform the same duty at the same time? PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 J N MAFUYA MRS MAFUYA At that time policemen and soldiers did perform the same duties. MR MANTHATA Does it mean then Atteridgeville was a war zone at that time? MRS MAFUYA Yes, it is so. MR MANTHATA Unfortunately, your son was shot at that time. Even after that they still come to collect his body even after he died. MRS MAFUYA The soldiers did come to our house. They wanted to see how old is this person. MR MANTHATA Then they took the corpse to perform some surgery and then what did they say they wanted? MRS MAFUYA They said the wanted the bullets because they are still in his body. MR MANTHATA It would seem that you are very lucky because they compensated you. I still wonder if you were compensated to satisfaction. MRS MAFUYA I want Mr Holiday in jail. Then I would be satisfied. MR MANTHATA What you want is that Mr Holiday must be arrested and be jailed? MRS MAFUYA He hurt me very much by killing such a young boy and shooting him. That hurt me very much. MR MANTHATA Now what we could suggest is that would you not like to meet Constable Holiday and discuss about things that transpired with respect to your child? MRS MAFUYA I do not want to do that because at court he said that he had a lot of friends and said that I want to contest the comrades case and my child was not a comrade. He was only 15 years. MR MANTHATA What you mean is that Holiday said he is not PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 10 J N MAFUYA prepared to talk to you about the child's funeral? MRS MAFUYA What I mean is that I do not want to meet with him. I heard him in court, what he said. Even in the passages at court whilst he was with his friends and said that I want to contest the comrades case. What is it then that I can talk with such a person? MR MANTHATA We will ask you that this matter is still to be discussed much further or investigated. So it is such a difficult thing for you as a woman. So I will just stop there with my questions. DR ALLY Wynand. MR MALAN Mrs Mafuya, your testimony about the body of your son having been removed, police claiming it and you getting it back again with all the cuts. It seems as if an operation had been performed, as if there was an autopsy done. Have you ever had a further explanation for that and what people were searching for and what was found? Was there anything in the court said about it? MRS MAFUYA The explanation that I received was that they found bullets on his body. That is what they were looking for. MR MALAN Were they busy with some kind of investigation into the shooting or do you have any idea why they were looking for the bullets? MRS MAFUYA The case was still continuing. They did read about it in the newspapers. MR MALAN Would you still have a case number for the case that you sued the police, the Minister of Police? MRS MAFUYA I cannot remember it by heart, but I have my diary where I wrote it down. MR MALAN We would appreciate it if you will also give us PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 11 J N MAFUYA that information so we can have a look into that case too, but thank you very much. I have no other questions. DR ALLY Thank you very much both Mr and Mrs Mafuya for coming to speak about Godfrey and like with the other cases, this is also a case which we will continue to investigate and hopefully we will be able to come back with some answers. Thank you very much. I would just ask us to stand please while the witnesses leave and once the witnesses have left we will take a lunch break and we will come back at two o' clock. So could we please stand while the witnesses leave. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG