hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-07-24 QUEENSTOWN 3 THUSO MOERANE QUEENSTOWN https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55845&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/qtown/moerane.htm THUSO MOERANE: (sworn states) BILLY DAGADA (sworn states) REVD FINCA Ntsiki Sandi. MR SANDI Mr Moerane, let us now start off by saying your story is about your son Lenare, who was shot by the police here in Queenstown in 1977. T MOERANE Yes, it is like that. MR SANDI What had happened according to what you know? Why was he shot? T MOERANE I would like to read an extract from this book written by Holiday about Queenstown just a few lines. The (indistinct) given by Soweto children has resulted in incidents of arson and violence in Mlungisi lately. On September 30, young Blacks begin a five day campaign in protest against Apartheid in which the Mallet Hall and other buildings in Mlungisi are destroyed or damaged and shops, houses and cars in the (indistinct) street area, are stoned. South African police have to use guns and two youths die. So one of those was one of my sons. MR SANDI Let's start now. What was your son doing at the time? T MOERANE I know he was a student. He was a student at Quwanqa Secondary doing form 2, which is standard 7 today. QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 T MOERANE MR SANDI How old was he? T MOERANE He was 16. MR SANDI According to what you heard, because you said you were not present on that day, people say there was a students' march here in Queenstown when he was shot? T MOERANE When we gave our statements, during the course of last week, I met this boy who was there with my son at that time, then I asked him to come and explain to the Commission. His name is Billy Dagada, sitting here next to me. MR SANDI So do you want to say you're now handing over to him to explain what actually happened, because he happened to be present on that day? T MOERANE Yes, it is like that. MR SANDI Over to you Mr Dagada. Let's hear from you. B DAGADA I must thank you for this opportunity, also thank the people of Queenstown and the Commissioners. In 1977 we were students here in Queenstown. We joined other students protesting against Afrikaans which was being forced as a medium of instruction. So some of the places like the Mallet Hall were burnt down, some of our hero's were working with to fight against this Afrikaans, also died. On this particular Sunday we were marching from Zwelitswa towards Johnson. It was at about half past seven, then there were some police vans. One of them was a certain car that was known to be having some people that used to beat up. Then as students ... (intervention) MR SANDI Excuse me Mr Dagada. Who is Claassen? B DAGADA Claassen was a White man who was working here at QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 B DAGADA the police station here in Queenstown and he was in the forefront of the people who used to arrest people. MR SANDI ; Continue. B DAGADA We stopped this vans, but before they could stop completely, when we were there next to Johnson, there were shots that we could hear. These were not only from the police in the van. On that day there were some policemen that were hiding in Mzwabandu, because some of the shots were coming from a house shooting the marchers and I was one of the marchers. That is where comrade Lenare died. I was also shot. We were all taken into a police van. I was unconscious and we were taken to a mortuary here in town, only to find that I was still alive, then I was taken to hospital. We were interrogated by policemen and some of them, some of us were under police guard for 24 hours. At about ten I was taken to the police station and I was tortured. Then Lenare died three days thereafter and he was under police guard. MR SANDI Where did they shoot Lenare? B DAGADA He was shot here on the forehead and the bullet was here at the back in the brain and then the Doctors were negligent because they did not transfer him to hospitals in East London because they did not care. MR SANDI As a person who was present at the time, do you perhaps know the name of any police who shot at Lenare? B DAGADA Those policemen, one of them was Jovane, another one Claassen. There was another busy one who looked like Mqengwani, who kept on talking like a dog and he was not actually beating us. MR SANDI Is that all you have to say about the shooting of QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 B DAGADA Lenare? B DAGADA That is not all. In the hospital it was not good because the Doctors neglected us because we were activists. The policemen used to take our pills that we had got from the Doctors and throw them away and we were subjected to electric shocks, even our testicles were even subjected to those electric shocks. MR SANDI Did you ever make any complaints, lodge any complaints to the Doctors and the Superintendent of the Hospital? B DAGADA Claassen would not give us any opportunity to see a Doctor and we were not expected to make any complaints. In stead what was happening was torture mainly. MR SANDI Let's now go back to Mr Moerane. Surely Mr Moerane, you have an aim by being here today. Do you perhaps have any requests to forward to this Commission and what is it? T MOERANE If we could get hold of the person who shot my son, in the spirit of reconciliation I would say, he should come forward to ask for an apology. MR SANDI Is that the only request you have? T MOERANE According to my statement I said that particular person should justify the shooting, but as we are listening to this evidence, it was just to scatter the marchers who were not showing to be dangerous at that time. MR SANDI ; Is that all you would like to say before this Commission? T MOERANE Yes, I think I'm forced to stop because I lost confidence in the system of justice because the one sitting here was in house arrest for five years, and when I asked why from the Minister of Justice, who was B.J. QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 T MOERANE Vorster, he answered and said, I was considered to be potentially dangerous, which was not a good answer to me. Even prior to that, my father who was a teacher in Bantu High School, fighting against Bantu education, when some of the teachers were reinstated to their jobs, my father was forced to take pension. Then I said then, there is no justice. Worst of all, they were not going to bring my son back to life. MR SANDI If that is all, then I'll hand you over to the Chairperson. REVD FINCA Thank you. Sir, these boys were a group. Now do you think there could be some commemoration that could be organised for these children who died which could serve as a warning to the people that people who are marching peacefully may not be tortured or harassed so that they should remain vivid in the minds of the people? T MOERANE I did consider that, but I got confused. REVD FINCA Mr Moerane, there are people in our land who carry themselves with immense dignity - I'll say it in Xhoza now, who make us proud to be who we are. And I want to say that in your testimony today, you have said very little, but the way in which you have said it, carries so much dignity, self respect and pride that we are proud of people like yourselves. You have related a very short story, but you have related it so well, it has touched the members of the Commission very profoundly. It is a story which ought to have left you with a lot of bitterness, but it is a story that also surely leaves you and your family with a lot of pride. That out of the Moerane household there was born a QUEENSTOWN HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 young man who gave his life for others. We salute you, we salute your son. It pains us that your wife who has died recently cannot join you on this day, but we salute her too in her grave. What you said in your summary that all that you require is for this person to say he is sorry, beyond that you have got no other interest. It is deeply touching. Thank you very much.