hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-07 RUSTENBURG 2 ALETTA K RAMOSEPELE JB3611 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55865&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/rusten/ramosepe.htm CHAIRPERSON Mrs Ramosepele, we ask Aletta Ramosepele. Aletta, can you hear well? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, I can. CHAIRPERSON I would like you to stand up. DR ALLY Will you please raise your right hand. ALETTA RAMOSEPELE (Duly sworn in, states). DR ALLY The witness is sworn in, thank you. DR RANDERA Dr Randera will ask you some questions now. DR RANDERA Aletta, good afternoon. We hope you are well. Aletta, you are also from Phokeng. You have told us that you are a housekeeper and you have come to talk about your husband, Samuel Molemane Ramosepele. You are taking us to 1992, after an ANC meeting which was held at the Roman Catholic St Joseph's Church, I presume and the arrest of your husband. Can you tell us what happened after that? MRS RAMOSEPELE He came home at night at about eleven o'clock. When he got home, I asked him where do you come from at this time. He told me that I had been arrested Phokeng earlier. I was arrested by the police of the former Boputhatswana government, because he had a T-shirt with Kotsilibone's picture on him and he was home from a meeting. And he told me that the people who arrested him, were in a private vehicle. After this vehicle spotted him, the small car reversed and parked near him, where they put him in the car and took him to the police station. At the police station they put him in another room and they pointed at him with a gun and they said this is your mother. They hit him with the gun butt and he was swollen on his face. He even had a wound. And then he went to a doctor and the doctor certified that he had been beaten on his heart, because thereafter he used to fall down, even at work. One day when I came back from work, I found him laying dead. Sometimes he would be taken to the doctor during the afternoon whilst I was still not at home. And that day when I came back from work, I found him lying dead. I arranged for a funeral. DR RANDERA Aletta, is there anything else you want to add before I ask you some questions? MRS RAMOSEPELE No, there is nothing I would want to say further. DR RANDERA Then I would like to ask some questions. Aletta, how old was your husband when he passed away? MRS RAMOSEPELE He was 51 years old when he died. DR RANDERA And was he working before his arrest and assault? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, he was a builder before he got arrested. DR RANDERA Now, the meeting took place in 1992, but your husband died in 1993. MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, he had a heart disease, because of the injuries he sustained when he was being beaten up. Because beforehand he was a very healthy person. Thereafter he was not even able to climb up the ladder, because he was afraid, because of his illness of falling down, he would fall down from high buildings. Then he started taking up gardening and started planting things in the garden which he sold later. And one day while he was still working in his garden, he fell down and died. DR RANDERA So he had no heart problem before his arrest? MRS RAMOSEPELE No, none at all. He was a very healthy man, a very tough man. DR RANDERA Did you ever lay a charge against the police? MRS RAMOSEPELE He went to the police because he was still alive by then. DR RANDERA And did he make a charge? Did he charge the police for the arrest and beatings sustained? MRS RAMOSEPELE I am not sure, because they referred him to lawyers and after his death I did not know what to do and I destroyed all the documents that he had with him before, because I did not think one day I would be sitting here, relating his story. DR RANDERA And after his death was there an inquest? MRS RAMOSEPELE No, there was no inquest, because I never thought that there would be some people who would follow up on what happened to him. DR RANDERA Your husband was a member of the ANC is that right? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes. DR RANDERA And before that, was he a member of the Progressive People's Party as well? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, he was also a member. DR RANDERA Now, you say the only reason he was arrested was because he had a T-shirt on that had Chief Lebone's picture on it? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes Sir. DR RANDERA Do you know what the meeting was all about, that your husband had attended that day? MRS RAMOSEPELE No I am not sure because I was not present at that meeting. DR RANDERA My last question, Aletta, do you have, how many children do you have? MRS RAMOSEPELE I have one child. DR RANDERA I have no further questions. CHAIRPERSON Piet Meiring. PROF MEIRING I would just like to add to the last question. Your son must be twenty four years of age. Is that correct? Elvis. MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes that is correct. PROF MEIRING What standard did he achieve at school? MRS RAMOSEPELE He is now doing a teacher's course at Potchefstroom. PROF MEIRING So he wants to become a teacher? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes. PROF MEIRING Do you have to support him, or can he support himself at the moment? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes I am struggling to support him. PROF MEIRING Thank you so much. DR ALLY When your husband came, returned after having been arrested and assaulted, he went to see a doctor, you say? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, he used to go some doctors frequently. DR ALLY Do you have any way of trying to assist us to find out who these doctors are or where they were based, because in your statement you just mention them? MRS RAMOSEPELE One of these doctors is Mafowala. DR ALLY Who is based ...(intervention) MRS RAMOSEPELE Rustenburg. DR ALLY He is in Rustenburg. And your husband went to go and see him as well. So he would have ...(intervention) MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes he used to go to this doctor. DR ALLY So he would have medical records of your husband? MRS RAMOSEPELE No, I did not keep those records. I thought it was over with the case and then I destroyed them. DR ALLY No, not you, the doctor, the one doctor in Rustenburg would he have medical records? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, I want to believe the doctor still have the records. DR ALLY Would you be able to try and get those records for us, or would you have difficulties? MRS RAMOSEPELE I think it would be difficult because I am working. I am only having a day off today and tomorrow. DR ALLY If you could leave with Zodwa who is next to you, some, this doctor's name and possibly the address maybe we can try and follow this up if this is difficult for you. Now you say that the doctor spoke about internal bleeding as a result of the beatings, was you husband ever hospitalised when he came out? Was he sent to hospital? MRS RAMOSEPELE No, he was never hospitalised. He used to get treatment and get back home. DR ALLY And was he going regularly for treatment, once a week, once every month. Can you remember? MRS RAMOSEPELE He used to go once a week. DR ALLY And he was on medication? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes, they used to give him some pills. DR ALLY Your husband, he stopped working, you say. Was that the advice of the doctor, or was it because he just felt that he couldn't anymore because of these dizzy spells, or was he advised for medical reasons to stop working? MRS RAMOSEPELE He was told by the doctor. DR ALLY This doctor in Rustenburg? MRS RAMOSEPELE Yes that is the doctor in Rustenburg. There was also another doctor here in Phokeng who was a Tswana. DR ALLY Thank you very much for that. If you can try and leave Zodwa with as much information as possible for us then we can try and follow this up. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Aletta for coming. We know that you work. You have asked for a day off so that you can come and present your story to us. Please try by all means to get those papers or records from the doctor so that we, on the other hand, could try and help you. We thank you. MRS RAMOSEPELE I also thank you. _______________________________