hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-08 SEBOKENG MOSELE ANDRONICA RADEBE 1051 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55871&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/sebokeng/seb1051.htm CHAIRPERSON On behalf of Rangwene Lefedi, Tabo Mosebe, Tabiso Nto, Kenneth Kubeka. I greet you Mrs Radebe, can you hear me clearly? MRS RADEBE Yes I can hear you clearly. CHAIRPERSON We welcome you. Can you please introduce the person you are with today? MRS RADEBE This is my aunt. MOSELE ANDRONICA RADEBE (sworn states) PROF MEIRING Mrs Radebe thank you for coming, for relating your story and what happened to the young people you are going to tell us about. It all started on the night of the 24th of January 1992. Will you please tell us in your words what happened on that day and in the days that followed upon that. MRS RADEBE In 1992 at 4000 Sharpeville we were asleep at 2 o'clock in the morning and the windows were shattered and the doors were breaking. Then we decided to wake up. When I was in the passage I saw these four young men. It was myself, Tabo Mosebe and Kenneth Nto. I wanted to open the door. The windows were continually being shattered. When I tried to open the door the door just opened itself. A White man came in and he picked me by my shoulder. Tabiso went behind him and he went outside. I released myself from him and then he got straight into the bedroom. I followed him and a large number of boers also came into the house. When he came from the bedroom he had Rangwane and Tabo in his HRV/1051 hands/... 2 hands. I passed them. I got into the bedroom. Before I could enter the bedroom I heard a loud bang behind me. I didn't know what sound it was and I got into the bedroom. My child was putting the blankets on himself. Kenneth wanted to hide himself in the wardrobe. I said Kenneth please get out. He said mum I am scared. I left them in the bedroom with my daughter and I went out through the kitchen door and I stood at the stoep. They asked me are the boys all out of the house? I said no there is only one left. They said tell him to get out. I told him that he is scared that you are going to shoot him and they said no. I said to Kenny, Kenny please get out of the house I will accompany you. The two of us got out of the house and we stood at the stoep and they said to him he should go to the street. I went back to the house to check as to the whereabouts of my daughter. She was still roaming in the house not knowing what to do. We were puzzled. We didn't know what was happening. Before they could get into the house I must say that they kicked the door, but the door couldn't open and then they kicked it in the middle and then there was a big hole. Then when we got into the dining room this door was having a big hole and this boer was having a teargas canister in his hand, releasing it into the house. We went into the kitchen to get the water. You know my daughter was wearing a very short nightdress and she didn't have shoes. They said we don't have to get into the house we must go outside into the street very close to the Combi where Kenny was standing, and they said we shouldn't say anything. The boers were full in my yard, surrounding my house. After quite a few minutes they said we should get into HRV/1051 the/... 3 the Combi. They will bring us back together with my daughter, we must go to the police station to tell them exactly what happened. I said to them can you please get into the house so that we get dressed. They said don't mind we are bringing you back. We got into the Combi, they drove with us to a police station in Vereeniging, they interrogated us. They were throwing harsh words to us. They took us back into the Combi, they drove us to Houtkop police station. We spent some time there, and after a few minutes they said you are now going. When we got outside three cars were parking. They put me into the other car, Kenny into another one and my daughter into the last one. And we were so surprised as to what was happening because they separated us. They took me to the police station at Vanderbijl Park, it was on a Friday, I didn't know where my child was, I didn't know where Kenny was. It was weekend. You know the family searched all over for us. They couldn't find us. On Monday we went to court. The case was postponed. We were told that it would sit on the 3rd of February. We were taken to Vereeniging Police station. We were kept there. On Tuesday we got visitors and that was the first time we heard that Tabo and Ndlangwane had been shot dead and Tabiso was in the hospital deadly injured. On the 3rd we went back to court. When we arrived at the court the case was just destroyed. When - myself and my daughter we were now the witnesses on behalf of the dead ones. Tabiso was still in the hospital. It was myself and Kenny going up and down to the court of law, but Kenny was given a R1 000 bail. We attended the court continually until Tabiso was discharged from hospital. The three of us then went to the HRV/1051 case/... 4 case and then I heard that Kenny was killed in Gauteng. Tabiso was now sentenced to four years because he was guilty. He is still inside serving his sentence. PROF MEIRING Thank you very much for telling the story. Is there anything you want to add or is that the whole story? MRS RADEBE This is the end of my story. PROF MEIRING Mrs Radebe thank you for coming. We don't want to prolong the agony but we do want to ask a number of questions to clarify matters if it's okay with you. MRS RADEBE I am ready Sir. PROF MEIRING The first question I want to ask is, the young people who slept in your house that night, were they ANC members or were they PAC members? Were they politically active? MRS RADEBE They were the - Rangwane and Tabiso were the MK cadres and the others were just comrades from the ANC. PROF MEIRING Thank you. Do you think that the police held it against you that they slept at your house, because they slept in your house were you guilty then too? MRS RADEBE I think that is the reason Sir, because Rangwane and Tabiso they were from exile and they couldn't sleep at their homes. They couldn't at all sleep at their homes because the police were harassing them. So they were hiding themselves, they were shifting places to sleep. PROF MEIRING I just want to go through the story to clarify a few matters. You say that when the police came into your house you heard a loud bang as if something was exploding, did you ever find out what that was? Was it a gunshot or what was the bang all about? MRS RADEBE The first bang was not that of a gun, but HRV/1051 after/... 5 after that loud bang the gunshots were heard. PROF MEIRING And then I want to clarify something else, you say that Kenny was also shot? MRS RADEBE Yes he was shot in Gauteng. PROF MEIRING Can you give us more information about that, how it happened, did they tell you anything about that? MRS RADEBE I was never given any information as to what kind of injuries he sustained, we only got the message that he had been killed in Gauteng. PROF MEIRING But did you receive his body back, were you able to bury him? MRS RADEBE Yes we buried him. PROF MEIRING And from the corpse you couldn't see what happened to him? MRS RADEBE No I didn't see anything Sir. PROF MEIRING Thank you. Another question, you said that Tabiso was eventually caught and he was sentenced and he's still in prison because of that, what was his crime? MRS RADEBE They said the loud bang was a hand grenade and he threw it actually. PROF MEIRING So he was sentenced for possession of arms illegally? MRS RADEBE Yes that's what they said. PROF MEIRING But you don't believe that? MRS RADEBE Not at all, I don't believe what they were saying. PROF MEIRING Thank you. I think those are the questions I wanted to ask to clarify but I am positive that my other colleagues have questions to add to that. Thank you Professor Meiring. MR RANDERA Thank you Professor Meiring. HRV/1051 MS SEROKE:/... 6 MS SEROKE Mrs Radebe you said earlier on Tabiso at the time when there was got inside he went outside? MRS RADEBE Yes Tabiso went outside. MS SEROKE Don't you know the reason why he left the house? MRS RADEBE No we were left behind, we don't know the reason. MS SEROKE Kenny was shot dead in Gauteng, didn't you get any post mortem result or a death certificate? MRS RADEBE Maybe Kenny's parents got the post mortem result and the death certificate. MS SEROKE You said your house was destroyed even at the time when you were not present and your furniture, you even requested your neighbours to keep your furniture for you? MRS RADEBE My aunt and them requested our neighbours to keep my furniture. MS SEROKE Now are you prepared to go back to your house? MRS RADEBE No not at all. I have given it to someone else. MS SEROKE What were you scared of? MRS RADEBE I don't want to stay in that house anymore. I won't rest at all. MS SEROKE I thank you. MR RANDERA Mr Mantata? MR MANTATA Thank you. Would you say you knew anything about the activities of Tabo? MRS RADEBE I only knew Tabo as a comrade. I didn't know any of his activities. MR MANTATA Would you know what position of leadership he could have held? MRS RADEBE No Sir. HRV/1051 MR MANTATA:/... 7 MR MANTATA I don't know if I understand you well. It seems Kenny's fright when the police came was slightly too high, a little above normal. MRS RADEBE I think he was highly scared because he wanted to hide himself in the wardrobe. He didn't want to get out. MR MANTATA Do you think he could have known anything about Tabo's activities? MRS RADEBE I think he got scared because of the bang that he heard in the kitchen. MR MANTATA And when you were called, or when you were charged what were you charged with? MRS RADEBE They never said anything to us, they just took us to the cells. MR MANTATA And then when you appeared in court? MRS RADEBE They said the case, my case and Martha's case were now dissolved. They said we should get out of the witness box. That is all they told us. MR MANTATA And now having left that house are you happy and feeling comfortable with the new communities that you are living with? MRS RADEBE I am staying with my sister now, and I am comfortable, but I want my own house. I would like to have my own house, not the one at no. 4000. DR RANDERA Mrs Radebe if I may just ask a few questions please. I just want to clarify these issues. These young people who were in your house, I mean you yourself say you were a comrade, you knew Tabo as a comrade and you knew them as MK cadres, did you know that they had arms in your house that night? MRS RADEBE No I have never seen them with any weapons. I never saw them handling weapons that night. HRV/1051 DR RANDERA 8 DR RANDERA Now the police report of the incident says that there was a fight, that there was a shoot-out between Rangwane and Tabiso who were killed and them, is that what you recollect? I understand that it was 2 o'clock in the morning, there was a great deal of confusion but your own recollection was there a shoot-out? MRS RADEBE I don't know which groups were shooting outside because I went back into the house. At the time when we heard gunshots we were in the house. We only went outside after being teargassed. I don't know, I don't have any information with regard to the shoot-out between them and the police. DR RANDERA Sorry, can I just, I am not trying to make life difficult for you, please excuse me. You say in your statement that when the police first came in they grabbed you by the shoulder. MRS RADEBE That's correct. DR RANDERA And then you saw a policeman leading Rangwane and Tabiso out of the house. Did they have guns on them at that time? MRS RADEBE No, I don't remember having seen them with guns. It was Rangwane and Tabo, Tabiso was already outside the house. DR RANDERA So you feel they were killed by the police that night? MRS RADEBE I believe so. DR RANDERA Thank you Mrs Radebe. Mrs Radebe we have listened to your story. I think I would just also like to add that what happened that night also had repercussions of course, that on that night Rangwane Lefedi and Tabo Mosebe were killed in Sharpeville. Three months later eight HRV/1051 members/... 9 members of the same Lefedi family were shot dead by unknown people in Sharpeville. It is alleged that the women were raped before being shot. The Lefedi family had complained on a number of occasions about the police intimidation and harassment following the death of their eldest son Rangwane Lefedi in January '92 during a shoot-out with the South African Police. Rumours of Ketisi/Kwamadala Resident involvement the sole survivor of the attack claimed that killers had said they were from Kwamadala. Do your remember any of this? MRS RADEBE I know about the Lefedi family that was wiped off. DR RANDERA Mrs Radebe thank you very, very much. I am sure what happened that night will always remain imprinted within your memory. I hope that the opportunity that you've had today has given you some peace. That you have been able to come and speak about this and clarify the issues once more. We have heard your requests about your house and the Reparations Committee will take note of that. Thank you very much for coming.