hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-07-26 SOWETO 5 MARY MAFA https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55917&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/soweto/mafa.htm CHAIRPERSON Could we now call Mary Mafa to the witness stand, please? Mary, can you hear me properly? I would like to welcome you to the Commission and thank you for having agreed to share with us your story, but before you do that could I ask you please to take the oath. Will you stand? MARY MAFA (Duly sworn, states). CHAIRPERSON Thank you. Thank you, you may be seated. I have asked Mr Hugh Lewin on my right-hand side to assist you with your statement. MR LEWIN Mrs Mafa, we would like to say thank you very much for coming. The story you tell is of your son and the tragic incident that took place in 1986. I think the best thing would be if you could just in your own time, feeling very relaxed, tell us that story. Thank you. MRS MAFA My child was arrested in - he was 16 years. At the age of 17 he was sentenced to Robben Island. When he came back he spent one year and eight months and then he left for a funeral at Mdeni, a funeral of a friend. Now on his way to the funeral he took Dr Asfat's car, but when he came back from the funeral, Dr Asfat's car was full of other people and he wanted to run with other comrades. But two men called him, they said come and ride with us. Then they SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 2 M MAFA drove together. Now at the bridge, the King Molatsane and the Cladi location, comrades were staying in there. They started pulling him out of the car. Now that man said he is a spy and he said take him, he thinks he is clever because he comes from Robben Island. They started throwing my son with stones and they stabbed him. This car proceeded to the funeral. They washed their hands and they ate, they enjoyed themselves, forgetting about this other person. As they were eating, his friends asked where is Martin, and they said no, he is around the people here, he is eating. Martin on the other side was being assaulted by people, they were stabbing him, until in Cladi where he fell next to a church. They finished him off there. They took big stones, they crushed his head and they necklaced him. Now this boy, the thing that puzzles me, this boy has never had any clash with Martin and he had never been involved in a fight with Martin. In other words they are just, he was fighting for the words Robben Island, Martin has been to Robben Island, he left him here. I don't understand why would he kill a person just for the fact that he had been to Robben Island. That will be the end of my story. MR LEWIN Thank you, Mrs Mafa. Could I just take you back slowly over some of the points. You mention that he was sentenced to the Island when he was 17. If I work it out correctly, that must have been in 1981, was it? MRS MAFA It was in 1980. MR LEWIN He was arrested in 1980 and then sentenced the next year or arrested in 1979? MRS MAFA He was arrested in 1979 and sentenced in 1980. SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 3 M MAFA MR LEWIN And what was the charge? MRS MAFA Sabotage. MRS MAFA Sabotage and he was sentenced to five years? MRS MAFA He was sentenced for five years. And what organisation was he a part of? MRS MAFA He belonged to Azapo. MR LEWIN To Azapo? MRS MAFA Yes. MR LEWIN And was there any specific actions of sabotage that he was charged with? MRS MAFA I don't know, but he was charged with sabotage and he was sent to Robben Island. MR LEWIN And served his full sentence then? MRS MAFA Yes. MR LEWIN Now in your statement you mention the group of young men who attacked him and pulled him out of the car. You have also mentioned a specific name of somebody. MRS MAFA He is Sipiwe Tusi. Did I say Simon? MR LEWIN Sorry? MRS MAFA I mentioned the name of Sipiwe Tusi. MR LEWIN Yes. Did you know him before, do you know him personally yourself? MRS MAFA No, even today I don't know him. MR LEWIN How do you get the name then? MRS MAFA No, in that car there were two women. There were two women in the car and Martin was in their company and another boy called Ballacks. Now this boy talked about the night vigil. MR LEWIN Okay. You say Ballacks is from Diepkloof? MRS MAFA Yes, he is from Diepkloof. At the time he was staying in Diepkloof, I don't know where does he stay at SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 4 M MAFA this moment. MR LEWIN Do you have any names for the two women? MRS MAFA Yes, I have their names, Lorato Munaghotla and Joyce Houtkop. MR LEWIN Right. I see that, thank you. And do you know where the girls now are? MRS MAFA Joyce Houtkop stays in Dlamini and Lorato Munaghotla stayed somewhere in Dobsonville. MR LEWIN Now these people with Tusi, who actually was responsible for killing your son, none of them had then been to Robben Island themselves? MRS MAFA Among all these people, not even one of them has been to Robben Island. The people who were with Martin were two women, and women don't go to Robben Island and the driver we don't know and Ballacks has never been to Robben Island. MR LEWIN No, sorry, I mean, the people who attacked him and killed him, they had not been to the Island? MRS MAFA No, they had never been to Robben Island. MR LEWIN Why do you think they felt so strongly? MRS MAFA When they took him out of the car they were fighting. It was a fight between UDF and Azapo, they had been to a funeral. Now this boy said this one thinks he is clever because he has been to Robben Island, take him away. He was together with another group of boys. He used very small children to kill people. MR LEWIN Could you explain then the significance of the funeral? You give the name Sipho Ngomizulu, who was being buried. Who was he? MRS MAFA Sipho Ngomizulu was a member of Azapo. Because he was a member of the Azapo, as Azapo member he had been to a SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 5 M MAFA funeral, that is Sipho. MR LEWIN But what I would ask is, I am trying to understand why the passions were so strong, that they would lead to an incident so terrible as this. MR LEWIN They were, the UDF was fighting. I don't know why they were fighting, I am a woman, I don't know nothing. But they were fighting and we read in the newspapers that UDF has committed such-and-such a thing. MR LEWIN You also mention in your statement that after killing him, they changed their story and started talking about Qibasa. MRS MAFA Yes, after killing him, taking huge stones, crushing him, necklacing him, they asked him why do you kill him. They said no, he said no, this man is a Qibasa, he was lying actually, because when he took him out of the car he said he thinks he is clever, because he is from Robben Island, but now as his body was burning, people were asking him the reason. He said he was a Qibasa member. He wanted to draw the people's attention. Nobody helped my child. The whole tyre finished him off. Nobody helped him because he was regarded as a rapist, as a murderer and a member of Qibasa. MR LEWIN Now was anything done about this by the police, afterwards, was there ever a report, an investigation? MRS MAFA When you reported such things, they would do the same thing to you. MR LEWIN And you also mentioned, if I could just mention this, in your statement, you said you did not report to the police because of threats. Could you tell us about those threats? MRS MAFA I received telephone calls that he had been SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 6 M MAFA killed by a million people. Many things were said and I even disconnected my telephone. MR LEWIN Did they give any specific threats? MRS MAFA No, they were just calling telephone threats on me. MR LEWIN To stop you from going to the police? MRS MAFA Yes. MR LEWIN And can you tell us after you discovered, apparently you discovered his body or discovered that he had been killed, two days after the killing itself. MRS MAFA After he had been killed, they killed him on a Saturday, the 24th of May and it was Sunday, and on Monday he didn't arrive at home. I know every time he would be away he would give me a call, but I got worried. Then I called my sibling in Alexandra and we went all over to search for him. Nobody came to me to tell me that he died. We went to different places, searching for him, and I asked young boys where is he. They would say a Qibasa member was killed there. And I would say no, my son is not a Qibasa member, he had been to Robben Island, and we would ignore that. We went to the Azapo offices. When we arrived at the Azapo offices, his friend was talking to another friend of his, and he said they started stoning Martin, they hit him. I said to my sibling, let's get out of here, my son is now dead. MR LEWIN And you buried him? MRS MAFA Yes. MR LEWIN And I know now it is very difficult for us to comfort you in this loss. Could I just ask, do you think the same sort of thing could happen now? MRS MAFA I think the law is now strict. Even if they can SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 7 M MAFA do it, they know that they will go to jail for many years. MR LEWIN Is there the same hatred and passion between different groups? MRS MAFA I don't really know, because I am not involved in this whole matter, I don't really know whether is there passion or not. MR LEWIN What would you like us as the Commission to do especially? MRS MAFA At this moment that child was my only resource. I don't have a child, I don't have anything, he was the only thing I had. MR LEWIN Thank you very much, Mrs Mafa. I will pass you on to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MS MKHIZE Could you please quickly tell us you say you stay at Mofolo Central, but this happened in Chladi. Now how did they know him, that he had been to Robben Island, because Mofolo are far apart from each other. MRS MAFA Do you understand the people who are in politics? On his release he was published in the newspapers. You will find out that this boy knew Martin exactly where and Martin didn't know him. Martin didn't know him, but he knew my Martin. MS MKHIZE In other words you are telling me that the person who killed him, knew exactly the person he was killing? MRS MAFA This person spoke, he said he thinks he is clever because he has been to Robben Island, that is what the said. It means he knew him. MRS MAFA The other thing I would like you to briefly brief us on, he was together with other people. Were they members SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 8 M MAFA of Azapo? MRS MAFA Yes. MS MKHIZE Now why didn't they come to you to tell you that they escaped? MRS MAFA I have been asking so many questions. I haven't seen those ladies even today, Joyce Houtkop and Lorato Munaghotla, and the police station is so near. When you are at the place of the incident, you just turn. He was pulled out of the car and they proceeded to the funeral. They went back to eat and enjoy their meals. When the other members of Azapo asked where is Martin, because Martin was taken in their presence. They said no, he is around here, he is eating. But you know, they saw the incident when he was taken out of the car and at that moment when they pulled him out of the car he had already been assaulted. I suspect these women, that is where my suspicion is. MS MKHIZE You say you had been to the Azapo offices. Didn't you tell the Azapo leadership that you have problems, because he was together with other comrades, but when he was pulled out of the car they proceeded to the funeral and they didn't report this and they didn't tell you anything. MRS MAFA They did the same thing, they never came to me. I was on my own searching for my son. They never came. I was just on my own and I found him in the mortuary. They came on a Friday, if I am not mistaken. MS MKHIZE I want to know, did you speak to any of the leadership of Azapo as what happened, that your son was killed in their hands? MRS MAFA No, at the time of Martin's death I was now sitting on the mattress, I couldn't say anything to them. I was now quiet, mourning. And after the funeral nobody came SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG 9 M MAFA to me. They all left. I didn't even take initiatives to take to their offices any more. MS MKHIZE I thank you. CHAIRPERSON Thank you, Mamma, for sharing your story with us. I think one of the hard lessons we are going to have to learn in South Africa, is that if we don't share the same poitical views, it does not mean that we have to be enemies. So many people's lives have been lost in this country, because even amongst ourselves we have fought with each other. We grieve for you in your loss and we hope that we will be able to assist you, with understanding why all of this happened. Thank you very much for coming to tell us this story. Thank you, Mamma. APPLAUSE SOWETO HEARING TRC/GAUTENG