hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-10 TZANEEN OWEN MABUNDA 3455 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55982&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/tzaneen/tzamabun.htm DR RANDERA Mr Mabunda, good morning. MR MABUNDA Morning, Sir. DR RANDERA Welcome, can you please introduce the lady who is with you? MR MABUNDA DR RANDERA OWEN MABUNDA (sworn states) MISS SEROKE MR MABUNDA What happened on the twenty eighth of March in 1986 at Lulekane. It was on a Good Friday. Before that date there was a problem within the Lulekane Township. There were these soldiers who were coming from outside country. They were staying in another secret camp just next to our township. Those people, before they came to our township. It was very quiet but after their arrival peace was no longer there. These people used to drink a lot and when they are drunk, they were drunk they used to go around the streets and started harassing people. If they find you during the evening, they used to assault you, to beat people up without knowing the reason. They used to assault us very badly. The community of Lulekane, more especially the youth, we gathered together and tried to discuss this problem. To assist each other in order to control the area, because it was no longer safe. We gathered and discussed about these matters, we assisted each other with ideas, how we could remove these people from our township. They should no longer set their foot in our township, because it was no longer safe if they were, they were around the township. We agreed on those points. There is nothing that we did to drive those people out of our township, because we tried to confront them at the beginning. It was just a few of us who used to go there. Sometimes other people, youth, used not to come. MISS SEROKE You said that there were these soldiers who came and disturbed, you know, the life in Lulekane. Where did they come from? MR MABUNDA Actually, these soldiers, some of them were coming from Angola, Zimbabwe, all these foreign countries. They were not South African citizens. During that time, the military bases which were there, it was 113 and 77 battalions and there was this battalion which they used to called it Skietoff or Five Rake. It was just a secret base. MISS SEROKE Why were they brought into Lulekane. What was happening in Lulekane at the time to warrant their presence there? MR MABUNDA Actually, in Lulekane they came to township to drink there, if they were off duty. Their camp was just next to Lulekane. It was just outside Lulekane. Ten kilometers from Lulekane. They used to come to Lulekane to come and drink and do some other things. MISS SEROKE Oh so they were not on duty, patrolling the place. They just came to drink from their camp. MR MABUNDA MISS SEROKE Then why did you dislike their presence, because you say that several times you tried to confront them and how did you confront them? MR MABUNDA MISS SEROKE .When they did this did you ever report to your police that these soldiers were harassing you and your girlfriends or wives? MR MABUNDA I can say that maybe there were people who used to say that but we never reported the matters to the police, because some, maybe sometimes it could have ended but, but there was no action which was taken against them if ever the matter was reported by other people. The way these people used to do, they were the people who were controlling the whole area. There was no other person who was going to do anything with those people, because they were controlling the area itself. MISS SEROKE Now you say a group of comrades met at a shabeen to drink or just to hold a meeting, because in your statement you say that they had planned this meeting and they used the shabeen as a venue. Did you think perhaps they knew that you were going to meet there for a meeting? Was it a meeting or just a social gathering? MR MABUNDA It was just a social gathering. We were not discussing anything. Just to build oness a, amongst ourselves so that maybe if one day if those people come and harass even one of our people in the community, we will assist each other. It was a social gathering and at the same time discussing those issues and during that time in our township, there was no police station there. The police station was only in town. You have to go to town to report the matter. So to be assisted by the police, it was not very easy. MISS SEROKE So, you would say that in the absence of a police station in Lulekane, the comrades saw that they could be the protectors of the, of that region, of Lulekane? MR MABUNDA MISS SEROKE Now do you think this bomb was planted there or was thrown into the shabeen? MR MABUNDA MISS SEROKE And before this bomb blast did you see any people passing around at that time? MR MABUNDA That area, I mean it was very busy. People were moving to and, to and from. There were people who were standing there. There were people who were passing along the street. I cannot differentiate between the people who standing and people who were passing. Actually, after it, it exploded, there were people who were driving motorbikes and those motor, those people used to drive those motorbikes. MISS SEROKE So you saw the motor bikes just shortly after the bomb and the, the soldiers usually used to use motorbikes. Did the soldiers use motorbikes when they came to Lulekane? MR MABUNDA Yes, yes they used to use my, motorbikes, a lot of them. Some of them used their own vehicles. When you see a very beautiful car, it was their own car. There were people who came there and they found us staying there in Lulekane. What the government was doing to them, it was, it was amazing. They were doing it, a lot of things for them than they do for 773 and 113 battalion. There was nothing they were afraid of. That was one of the issues which gave us problems. MISS SEROKE In your statement you say that many people were killed. Do you know exactly the number of people who were killed in that shabeen on that night? MR MABUNDA MISS SEROKE But all the people who died were the comrades that used to discuss the issue of the mercenaries with you? MR MABUNDA Yes, I can say so. There were other people who were staying in Namakyale who were there too. MISS SEROKE Was there an official investigation about this bomb blast afterwards in Lulekane, by the police or by the soldiers? MR MABUNDA DR ALLY MR MANTHATA Well, in the light of what Dr Ally has said, I have no further questions. DR RANDERA Sorry Owen, I just want to know how, you say your brother was in standard seven. How old was he? MR MABUNDA Actually, he was born in 1969. I was trying to calculate. DR RANDERA In your statement you, you state how this has affected you and your family, that even up to this day you feel that you were responsible for his death. Can you just tell us a little more about that? Or you feel that you were responsible. MR MABUNDA MR MANTHATA When you refer to, what would you think of the other four or the otherr five who died with him, would they too deserve tombstones or a community memorial, sort of? MR MABUNDA DR ALLY