hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-04-10 TZANEEN SAMUEL MATHEBULE 1411 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=55986&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/tzaneen/tzamtheb.htm DR ALLY DR ALLY MISS SEROKE Our next witness is Samuel Mthebule. DR RANDERA Mr, do you want to put your headphones on or not ? MISS SEROKE DR RANDERA SAMUEL MTHEBULE (sworn states) MISS SEROKE MR MTHEBULE He is my uncle. A brother to my father. His name is Abel Ntebolin. MISS SEROKE MR MTHEBULE MISS SEROKE MR MTHEBULE So should I start again? Alright, thank you. Much as I said before that I have no idea ... MISS SEROKE MR MTHEBULE So, we met a delegation if I should call it of the African National Congress where we met Mr Jacob Zuma, Makora Ramathlodi who was then not their Premier and a certain lady whom I knew as Comrade Sue. So we would definitely wanted to find out what the position was. So we made our submission. They went through their records as to those who disappeared, those who died in action and very little came by way of evidence from such a, let me call it inspection, because, for lack of a term. But, it was ultimately brought to our mind Mr Zuma, Makora Ramathlodi and the lady there gave us this version of all they knew about his disappearance and ultimately now, his assumed death. That he had to meet, while in the country, but before the unbanning of the Liberation Movements, he had to meet a certain comrade called Joy Hayden somewhere between Tembisa and Eldorado Park where perhaps they had an appointment. It was then, according to the information that we received from the African National Congress, that they last heard of him. No trace whatsoever was, could be made. No sign of his remains or where an action could have taken place and his life perhaps lost. At this very same meeting an arrangement had to be made, we with us as a family and the delegation of the African National Congress, that according to African tradition, when somebody is dead, obviously there should be some ritual of some sort. To an extent that it was mutually agreed that we have, I think it was on the 22nd of February 1992 that we agreed to have a sort of a memorial service so that so that this could become a finished business on our part, because it had become very clear that he was no more. So, together with the African National Congress, such a memorial service was held at home, where there was also an undertaking on the part of the African National Congress through Mr John Nkadimeng and Edgar Mushwana that further investigations will be made and we would, as a family, be kept informed, but we tended to understand that since it was still a liberation movement, no elections had as yet been conducted, it was very difficult for them as a liberation movement to conduct such intensive investigations. MISS SEROKE MR MTHEBULE Thank you. I am afraid that I have no idea of this Olivia Forsyth accept that my suspicion is that, let alone by getting a statement from me, one other statement was given by my younger sister out in Johannesburg so apparently that one, she is the one who has given the Commission that name. Because the statement was taken from her, because it was her who was staying with him while he was still underground. MISS SEROKE You also state that there are two children who were left by your brother. ... (interrupted) MR MTHEBULE MISS SEROKE And you and your mom have been looking after these children. I just want to find out, what did the ANC ever do in relation to these children ? MR MTHEBULE MISS SEROKE DR ALLY The second is, the powers which we as a Commission have to question people and in fact even to subpoena people to come before the Commission and answer our questions, and you have, in your statement there are certain names which you have mentioned, people who, who we now know actually were, had infiltrated the ANC, Olivia Forsyth is the one name in your statement and it has been established that she was actually an agent for the former government that infiltrated the ANC and we, we will be following up on these names and on these individuals in trying to get some answers to, to, to these questions.