hrvtrans 1 N NDUNGANE, HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-28 UITENHAGE 3 NOMBUYISELO MARGARET NDUGANE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56019&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/uiten/ndungane.htm CHAIRPERSON Our next witness is Nombuyiselo Margaret Ndungane. NOMBUYISELO MARGARET NDUNGANE (sworn states) CHAIRPERSON We welcome you Ms Ndungane, and we are going to ask Ms Maya to lead you. MS MAYA Thank you Mr Chairperson. Ms Ndungane we greet you. Could you tell this Commission about Lungile Joel Ndungane, who was hurt and killed during the conflict between the Azapo and the UDF in 1986. How old was Lungile at the time? MS NDUNGANE He was born in 1956. MS MAYA Was he working at the time, or was he at school? MS NDUNGANE No, he was just about to work and he was still at school, though he had gone out of school. He was in Std. 9, and because he could see I was suffering he decided to go out and work to help me, so as to continue to be able to continue with his studies and to do Std.10. MS MAYA In your statement you have referred that he was amongst a group of the UDF, who were to take guard of a particular leader of the UDF? Who was this leader? MS NDUNGANE They use to go there daily to guard this house that belonged to Mr Fuse in Zwide. MS MAYA At what stage was he then attacked? MS NDUNGANE Firstly, I would say, there in Goli, in a UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 2 N NDUNGANE place called Makaleni. It was very bad, from 1985 and 1986 we couldn't sleep at night because there was war between Azapo and UDF. We would get into bed dressed, even as parents. Our children could not be at home for a long time, and I could see that Azapo and UDF were fighting because there White people who were making this conflict. My son at the time, as I was a worker, would come back, when he came from guarding. They used to go out go guard. On this particular day that is reflected there on the statement, which was in 1986, when this incident occurred, we chatted and it was after supper. He just felt tired and he said that he did not want to take anything that they used to carry to defend themselves. The others came from the very same locality and it was at 9:00 at night and that was the time they used to go there. Thought it was during the time of the state emergency, they would hide so that these policemen should not find them, because these policemen used to come to our houses and kick the doors so they would then go to those places that they used to keep guard. So we would not sleep because we were scared of these White men. It was really bad in Makaleni. If you had a light on, you would close the window with a blanket so that they should not see the light. If they would be attracted by any light they would kick the doors and they would come into your house to find out what you were doing at that time, was there a meeting perhaps. MS MAYA After the boy had left, when did you next see him? MS NDUNGANE We were sleeping, but I must say that we were not actually sleeping. We were very sensitive to noise. There were Hippos that were being driven all over the place and some cars and we would all be thinking of our children, UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 3 N NDUNGANE because there was this battle that was very painful. I woke up on this particular day and went to work and I wanted to find out why I didn't see him and meet him at the gate as it usually happened. So anyway, I left. So, I didn't meet him that day and I was unhappy at work because I wanted to find out the reason why he didn't come back. We had heard some gun shots because Zide and Zykela are in the neighbourhood and we would hear all these gun shots. I was unhappy. Then, at work I got a message that they wanted me at home. I got into a car and these people in the car kept me busy because they could see that I was unhappy. When I got home, I saw a crowd of people in me own yard only because my child had died. MS MAYA Where did they actually find him, and what was the extend of the injuries? MS NDUNGANE Right, let me say. On this particular morning, as I was coming back from work, there were screams and people were all crying and I realised that my son had died. The time I regained my consciousness was at Dr Inshona's surgery because I collapsed. Later the following day we heard that my son had been hurt in Zwide at Gaganna Street no.3. When my neighbours went there together with my cousin to have a look, they found that his body had been removed by the ambulance. MS MAYA Did you perhaps have an opportunity to see him, or to identify his body where he was? MS NDUNGANE No, it is my cousin who went to look for the body because they felt that I was not in a position to go and see his body because he had been hurt badly, his body was in pieces, you couldn't identify the head, the feet, the UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 4 N NDUNGANE fingers and all, he was just in pieces. MS MAYA I think there was a time when this policeman called you to a police station. Could you tell us about this? MS NDUNGANE A few days after, there were three of us and one of them was my cousin and a neighbour of mine. We went to the New Brighton police station, and I wanted that there should be a case opened about this matter because I really didn't know what the cause of the butchery was, of my child. It was there when I got injured because I was still very upset. I found a White policeman and one black policeman and we stated our problem and a Black policeman responded. I still remember him, he was known as Faku. I was still young, and he addressed me as a young girl, saying that you must not come and tell us that your son has been killed by Azapo, he was at war, therefore there is no case on this matter, we don't take such cases. That is when I was deeply injured, after I had lost my son, so therefore there was no case on this matter. MS MAYA Now, in your statement you say that they were making a laughing stock out of this incident. What were they saying? MS NDUNGANE They were making a laughing stock of this. ..(interruption) MS MAYA Alright, could we pass on and could we talk about the funeral and the preparations for the funeral. How did the policemen handle you? MS NDUNGANE I was unhappy. It was not as if there was going to be a funeral. That was the time when it was very bad to me, even if he was dead. There were no prayers held as it is normally done. They did not want that there should UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 5 N NDUNGANE be more than 5 people held together, they would ask, why we were holding these prayers. They even said that these people had died because they had wanted to die. I was also scared for my life. There were some Whites that were patrolling, demanding about some books that I didn't even know about. They just wanted any type of book such that I lost my identity book, even my husbands identity book got lost then and even the funeral wasn't conducted properly because three children were being buried at the methodist church and we were not happy even then we struggled. MS MAYA How had your health been affected by the death of this child? MS NDUNGANE I didn't become well, even up till now. I am not enjoying good health, I am sick such that doctors have given instructions that I shouldn't talk much. I must take care of myself and just talk softly because a heart condition is threatening me. MS MAYA Is there any request that you would like to say to this Commission? MS NDUNGANE Firstly Mr Chairperson, I would be delighted if the murderers of my son could come forward before this Commission, at least I would feel that I would be happy. One other thing, my son had a son who was 3 years old then, and so he is quite old and I am responsible for his education now. So I am asking that the Commission could be of help to him. MS MAYA Is that all Ms Ndungane? MS NDUNGANE Yes, that is all. MS MAYA We thank you. Over to the Chairperson. CHAIRPERSON Over to you Mr Sandi. MR SANDI Thank you Mr Chairperson. Thank you Ms Ndungane. UITENHAGE HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE 6 N NDUNGANE I would like to ask this one question, so as to have everything clear. You made mention of a name, Faku. There is such a name that has been constantly mentioned. Now, which Faku have you referred to? MS NDUNGANE This Faku is the one who died, and I feel bad that he died because I wish he could still be alive and I would be addressing him even now because the horrible and painful things that he said to me. MR SANDI They say that he died, what was the cause of the death? MS NDUNGANE I don't know, he died somewhere. I don't know where they were even getting to. MR SANDI Thank you. CHAIRPERSON We thank you Ms Ndungane. As a result of the fact that there are some cases that we had to stop yesterday, which we have to look into today, and because we are behind schedule, we are therefore going to ask that we should have about 40 minutes lunch break to resume at 1:40. Thank you.