hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-08-26 UITENHAGE 1 IVY NOTHANDEKILE SOYA EC /96 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56037&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/uiten/soya.htm CHAIRPERSON Are you both going to take the oath. What is the name of the person sitting next to you? MRS SOYA The name is Monwabisi Soya. CHAIRPERSON Could Nothandekile Soya stand. IVY NOTHANDEKILE SOYA (Sworn duly states). CHAIRPERSON The next Monwabisi should take the oath. MONWABISI SOYA (Sworn duly states). CHAIRPERSON Mrs Ivy Nothandekile Soya we welcome you to this Commission and we thank you for coming forward to give us the story about Msokoli Seuntjie and also how he died. We are therefore going to hand you over to Ntsikelelo Sandi who is going to lead you by questioning you. MR SANDI Let me greet you first Mrs Soya. According to what I see on the statement here in front of me you have asked that you should talk to this Commission about your son, named Msokoli Seuntjie Soya who was shot dead. Is it like that. MRS SOYA Yes, it is like that. MR SANDI Your son sitting next to you, who is Monwabisi, he is going to explain and tell us as an eye witness. Is it like that? MRS SOYA Yes, it is like that. MR SANDI Let's start from 23rd July 1985. You mentioned in your statement that you were at work on that day and you got a telephone call. Could you therefore tell us who was the caller and what was the news that he was telling to you and you could continue with your story. MRS SOYA Should I start with the day of the 23rd or 25th? MR SANDI Start with the day of the 23rd because the most important day is the 25th. MRS SOYA On the 23rd, on a Tuesday, I received a telephone call and I was at work and my neighbour was the caller. He was telling me that there was a tense situation in the township and I was disturbed. I was to go off duty at 6.00pm. So what happened is I asked for time off from my employer and I was denied that. They asked me what for, I told them, but they still refused and then I took a decision to go without permission before 6.00pm. MR SANDI At the time you were asking from your employer to be released, to go to your place, did you explain to him why you wanted time off from work? MRS SOYA Yes, I did. I told him that children were being shot at the location and even other people too from the location came with that information and they were telling a lot of things that were happening there. They could not even get transport because of all these disruptions, but my employers refused. MR SANDI So, even if they did not allow you to go and look after your children, you decided to leave on your own? MRS SOYA Yes, it is like that. MR SANDI When you got home, what was happening? MRS SOYA I found my children on their feet and they said they were coming from the Soweto Forest. They looked dirty and dusty, so I asked them what was actually happening and they said police were shooting at them together with the soldiers. I was scared because the very policemen and soldiers were patrolling because my house was facing the cemetery. I gave them money and asked them to leave to Despatch, to go and live with their grandmother. MR SANDI Was it the late together with Monwabisi? MRS SOYA Yes, it was. MR SANDI Then what did you hear, what happened in Despatch. MRS SOYA On Thursday on the 25th, whilst I was at work at about 2.00pm, as I was going to the neighbours there at work, a cousin of mine came into me in the company of a certain child related to us and they had come to call me and I left my neighbours and went to where I work. I saw them standing there outside but they wouldn't talk to me, instead they cried and later on they told me that it seemed as if they had got a call from Despatch stating that some children together with my child had been shot, but they could not tell exactly what had actually happened. I could not bear this and they again confirmed that my son had been shot in the stomach. I did not believe this. I even thought that perhaps he might be dead. I then saw a car driving towards me . . . (break in . . . . ) CHAIRPERSON Since I can see that this is very disturbing to me, I don't know whether you would allow Monwabisi to take over whilst you get time to recollect yourself? MR SANDI Monwabisi, in your statement which is here in front, could you explain what actually happened in Despatch? MONWABISI Yes, I could. What happened on the 25th is that the late Msokoli was intending to go back to Port Elizabeth. I was in Unit 3, 3rd Avenue, with my friends then he came to tell me that he was leaving for Port Elizabeth and I had to take him as far as the Taxi Rank. I accompanied him to go and collect his clothes from the 2nd Unit. When we got there we found a neighbour who was about a year older than my brother, they were standing within a certain yard next to the gate. Then there was a group of soldiers who came. One of my aunts asked them not to run away. MR SANDI What time was this, was it late? MONWABISI No, it was at about 11.00 in the morning. It was 11 'o clock in the morning. MR SANDI Go on. MONWABISI So these soldiers came and they got off the hippos and they advanced towards my brother and the companion, they grabbed him and he tried to release himself and he managed and ran and jumped over to a house there behind. MR SANDI Now, when you say these soldiers advanced to them. Now you mean, they just chased them? MONWABISI Yes. They chased them and they grabbed the two of them, but my brother managed to release himself, they chased him still and he jumped over a fence and got into the 3rd Avenue. They shot him and he fell. At the time they were shooting, I just heard a loud sound but I was scared for my life, so I could not come out of the house. An ambulance came at about 12 'o clock and the police and the soldiers turned back, and time went on until at about 3 'o clock there was an ambulance for the soldiers that came. The soldiers did not want any observers, even family members to look at the incident. MR SANDI At the time the soldiers were turning back the ambulance, where was Msokoli's body? MONWABISI It was there at the back where he had fallen. MR SANDI Now you say they shot him at about 11 am. MONWABISI Yes. MR SANDI Now, you say at the time the body was still there. Then what happened to his body? MONWABISI The ambulance that belonged to the soldiers took his body and I don't know where to. That was the last I saw of him. MR SANDI Is that all you have to say Monwabisi? MONWABISI Yes. That is as far as I can go. MR SANDI Now, let me ask you, at the time the soldiers were chasing Msokoli and the friend. Did he perhaps say anything? MONWABISI You mean the soldiers? They did not say anything. What I just heard the soldiers saying was that "shoot him dead", they were saying this in Afrikaans. Now, I don't know exactly why they shot him because they had not done anything, they were just standing. MR SANDI Thank you Monwabisi. MR SANDI Mrs Soya, I don't know whether I can come back to you at this point. Are you ready? By being here Mrs Soya, when we conclude we would say what would be your request to this Commission, since we have got the whole story? MRS SOYA My request to the Commission is that it should investigate who my son's killers were and find out what was their reason for that. What had he actually done to them to deserve the death or loss of life. I want to know their names. MR SANDI Is that all you would like this Commission to help you with? In your statement, Mrs Soya, you have made mention of your health that it was affected by this incident. Now can you recall this? MRS SOYA Yes, I can. MR SANDI Now, could you refer to it? MRS SOYA My health got affected as a result of the incident. Then one August month, I could not even work and serve the guests at work, so I was given one months' sick leave and I was admitted in hospital and I was treated by Dr Singapi and I went back to work. But since then, I have never enjoyed good health. Towards the end of each month, I always have some excessive bleeding and have to consult a doctor. Then in 1992, I was re-admitted into hospital. That was in December on the 8th and I had to be operated upon. After that, I went back to work. That was in February, but I still could not work properly and even my employers did not give me good treatment together with the management because they accused me of being talkative. They were even telling me that I could not enjoy the privileges that were enjoyed by the other staff members and this used to hurt me because they used to warn me repeatedly, even if we would have stayed away from work as a group, as we were members of the union then they would tell us that if we don't report to work they were going to get someone to work for me. So, all the time they would call me to their office to reprimand me and I could cry in front of the management. Even the operation gave me some problems and this I reported to the manager but he ignored it. I therefore decided to resign in April to take care of myself. MR SANDI So, in short, Mrs Soya you say your employers despite that they were fully aware of the incident of your son, they never showed any sympathy toward you? MRS SOYA No, they never showed any sympathy towards me. MR SANDI Now, Mrs Soya is that all you want to say to us before I hand over to the Chairman. MRS SOYA Lastly, what hurts me mostly, my that my son who is surviving to, got affected badly. The name is Phindile Soya. He is still attending school but he is not doing well, he fails. Because at the time of the incident he used to cry a lot and he could not even go back to school and he would take care of me until I decided to send him to the Transkei to stay with someone there in Transkei by the name of Mr Sebezo, living in Lady Frey. He is the one therefore who helped me and accommodated my son and sent him to school. He came back but he was a little bit better. MR SANDI Could I intervene Mrs Soya. By the same, you said there is some treatment you are getting some treatment from the doctor at the present moment. MRS SOYA No. Now that I am not working, I am not getting any treatment because I used to pay for my medical expenses. MR SANDI Now, do you still mean you need some treatment from the doctors because of your condition? MRS SOYA Yes. I keep on falling sick but there is nothing I can do until I wait for my husband to give me some money in order to consult a doctor. MR SANDI Are there other facts that you may have omitted, if so I will give you another chance later on. MR SANDI Mrs Soya, how old was your son when he died? MRS SOYA He was 15 years old. MR SANDI Was he perhaps an activist? Politically what was he actually doing? MRS SOYA He was a member of the COSAS. MR SANDI Is it true that your son was the son that you loved mostly? MRS SOYA Yes, it is like that. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mrs Soya. Let us thank you for your report that you have forwarded to this Commission. I would also like to thank you for sharing this story that is so very painful to your life with us. The record of this Commission is going to indicate that we have discovered that after this incident, Ivy Soya was greatly affected by the death of her son who was the beloved son and she further got hurt by being ill-treated by the employers even after this painful incident. We shall indicate this in the record because she also attempted suicide several times as a result of all this pain and suffering. I also would like that in our record this should be shown because as this Commission we are looking into the conflicts of the past but it is very evident that black women and mothers, although we are dealing with the conflict of the past, we have to deal with that conflict even-handedly. But, our black mothers have endured a lot which perhaps could not have been endured by the other mothers. I therefore think that it should be in your mind that if your son was allowed to live he would perhaps be something in life. We thank you for this very painful story, I say it once more that I wish people who were in government at the time should be listening. We are going to look into your request and attend them and make a follow-up as much as we can, but I should ask the comment of the reparation to look into whatever assistance they could offer insofar as your health is concerned, because we feel that it needs an urgent attendance. Thank you.