hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1996-10-03 VENDA THILWAIWI MUNYAI https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56107&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/venda/munyai.htm MR ALLY Good afternoon Mr Munyai, thanks for coming. Mr Richard Lyster here is going to assist you with your evidence. Before that I will ask him to administer the oath. Thank you. THILWAIWI MUNYAI (sworn states) MR LYSTER Mr Munyai, you are a school teacher, you're 32 years old and you live in the Maqwonde area is that right? MR MUNYAI Yes. MR LYSTER And you have come to tell us about three separate incidents in which you were first arrested, detained for a three month period and then the other two incidents relate to severe beatings, assaults on you by the police and the defence force, is that right. MR MUNYAI Yes, it is true. MR LYSTER Tell us about those three incidents in your own words, just giving a bit of back ground first about what you were doing in 1989, to which political party were you affiliated to if any and just give us an idea of what was happening here in Venda in those days. MR MUNYAI In 1989 I was not affiliated to any political organisation, but when people were celebrating their independence here, school closed and children were not going to school. In our village at Maqwonde, schools were not continuing VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 2 T MUNYAI at that stage. Who was the Headmen at that stage, he was trying to force the children to go to school, but then the students refused. Then the Headmen took the message to the police, saying that there are people who are influencing the students for not going to school and the Headmen said they wanted to kill him. It is then that people were starting to be arrested and I was one of those who were arrested. I was taken to Tendo police station. In arriving there, I was pressed in the interrogation room, then I found some people who named themselves such as Bootsha and a certain man who was a good boxer. And I was forced to take a statement and then he came and read the statement and said what writing this is. Then he told me to write something which is true and then there was nothing which I wrote again. That was here in July, August and the end of August. I was arrested from July and I remained there in Tendo police station from July up to early October at Tendo police station and no charges was laid against me. Then whilst staying there, we were staying under bad conditions. Where you could find that there was no water to bath, sometimes in the toilets we used to take those old blankets so that we can drain water, so that we can wash ourselves. We were not provided with tissues or toilet papers. When we asked for tissues they said we must use the way in which the Indians used to do, that is we must use our hands to clean our anus. Then we stayed there for a long time and decided not to VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 3 T MUNYAI eat food there or, we spent ten days on hunger strike. I still remember some young boys who were there and some who were a little bit older, became ill and they were taken to the hospital and due to that, we were released on the 15th of October, this is what happened in 1989. Then on the second occasion it was in 1990. Immediately after the release of President Mandela, when people were happy, one of the people who were very happy, fell from the car which was driven by the police and that person died. While we were attending his night vigil, the whole home was surrounded by soldiers and the house was surrounded because it was alleged that we were there to dishonour the dead. It is then that some, including myself, were arrested by those soldiers. We were laying on the boot of the car which was present and we were sjamboked in our buttocks and we were thoroughly beaten by fists and we were deported to the police base as Sebatsa. We were injured and we would receive no treatment. And we were taken to a certain room with our clothes off, we were naked and we were poured with cold water from the store room. Here on the floor, there was no dry place. The place, the whole place was wet. Early in the morning, at about five o'clock we were taken to Tendo police station. Up to there our names were listed there and we were detained at Makado police station. There we stayed for a weekend and we were released the following Monday. Then we came back and we were not told the reasons for being arrested. The last incident took place during the VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 4 T MUNYAI same year, in 1990, when there was a strike for the teachers. Being so, we have organised for a meeting before we could hold a meeting, when the meeting was going to take place the following day, the warrant arrestor was released in which some of the teachers were expected to be arrested. We have received the information, the information leaked and we were arrested before and by the following day we had decided to make a sit-in in our schools. Being there, doing that, we were - tear gas were thrown and we ran away, here at Tandosopinq Centre, we held a short meeting. After that meeting we started singing. The police then arrived, tear gassing us and the Defence Force were also there. That is where I was definitely hurt because I was sjamboked as I was running. There was somebody who was calling me on a loud haler, but I don't know who the person was. He sjamboked me in such a way that I fell. I was kicked like a ball. Whilst there, somebody tear gassed me again, I was kicked again and I got hurt. Some of the evidence as you can see, I don't have the full dental formula, my mouth got torn and it was just - my eyes were swollen I couldn't even see. It was difficult for me to see if I could open my eyes, that is why I had to rush towards the grass and one woman who I cannot recall now, found me and pulled me to the road and there was a car, who belonged to Shumanile Dozela, who took me to Dr Kumnow who treated me on an injection. I was then taken to Hufule. On arriving there, I realised a lot of people were realising that I was feeling pain. They stitched me on the mouth, by Dr Thompson. From VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 5 T MUNYAI there I was taken, the ambulance had to take me to where they had to check my eyes and (indistinct). I stayed there for about two weeks, receiving treatment on the eye. My eyes, up to now, are not quite all right, because I feel as if there is something inside and the kind of glasses that I used to wear, were different, but now, I am wearing the glasses which are going to make it easy for me to see. Even my body, I still have a lot of pain the way I was kicked. MR LYSTER Thank you very much Mr Munyai. Now you said that in 1989 before the first, before you were detained for that 3 month period, that you weren't affiliated to any particular organisation at all. And you were then detained. Why do you think it was that you were detained, what led the police to detain you for that lengthy period? MR MUNYAI What I think contributed was that the one who was a Headmen at Maqwonde, could have been the one who made it possible that I got arrested, because when the schools had stopped, when the school kids were not going to school, the children refused or resisted the (indistinct) against the Headmen and he suspected that I could have contributed in influencing such kind of things. Then he might have sent my name to the police station. MR LYSTER And what was the general feeling amongst the children. Why did they refuse to go to school at that time? Was it because they objected to the independence celebrations which were happening? MR MUNYAI Yes, truly. MR LYSTER Did that period in detention have the effect of politicising you? MR MUNYAI I couldn't hear it clearly. VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 6 T MUNYAI MR LYSTER That period of detention that you had to endure, that three months in detention, did that have the effect of forming or focusing your political views because thereafter you were beaten, assaulted on two further occasions after that, after your release from detention? MR MUNYAI You mean my involvement in political affairs. MR LYSTER Increase after you were released from detention? MR MUNYAI Yes, it did. MR LYSTER You say at one stage in your statement that you were charged with I presume it is assault, GBH with intent to do grievous bodily harm. Were you charge, did you face any case in court, were you convicted of anything, were you acquitted, what happened? MR MUNYAI It ended there without any charge. There was no specific charge. MR LYSTER Now in what ways are you still suffering or in any way disadvantaged from the last assault on you. You've indicated to us that you had teeth knocked out, you had your lip cut and you said you are still suffering pain in your upper body. Do you know specifically what the cause of that is, have you seen a Doctor? MR MUNYAI I was terribly effected on the eyes and even the Doctor confirm that my eyes were effected. MY LYSTER Was that from being assaulted? MR MUNYAI Being kicked even on the face. MR LYSTER Did you have any medical records so that we could try and ascertain the extent of your injury to see whether it is an ongoing or a permanent thing? INTERPRETER The Speaker's mike is not on. MR MUNYAI The Elim hospital can confirm that as to how VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 7 T MUNYAI I was injured. MR LYSTER And are you now back in your job as a teacher? INTERPRETER The Speaker's mike was not on. MR LYSTER Sorry, could you just repeat that, your microphone was not switched on. MR MUNYAI Yes, I am back at work. MR LYSTER Activities, were you ever suspended from your job as a school teacher during those days? MR MUNYAI No. MR LYSTER I'll ask the Chairman if there are any other questions that he or my other colleague would like to ask. MR MANTHATA Mr Munyai, it seems the students were politicised when the Headmen took the lead or whatever. Who would you think could have politicised the students by that time? MR MUNYAI I am not aware of anything, I can't tell. I don't know who could have been influencing at the time. MR MANTHATA Or could it have been some other forces within the village that could have politicised them - not necessarily an individual. INTERPRETER The witness, you will repeat please. MR MANTHATA Sorry, my question was if there is no specific person that you know who could have been a political force or that could have influenced the children against the Headmen, do you know of any other activity that could have influenced the students? MR MUNYAI I've said that what I know is that it seems that came about of the independence, is the only thing that led into the students' resistance. MR MANTHATA Then you talk about this incident where, that VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 8 T MUNYAI is the second arrest, what do you - it happened with the death or whatever someone, how come that they have to pin that on you or they had to suspect you? MR MUNYAI I do not know why because it was a list which was issued and we were many and we were arrested, then we were detained. MR MANTHATA The many, the number you are referring to, was it a number of political - people belonging to one political thinking or they were just individuals separately? MR MUNYAI They were people who were falling under the same organisation, political organisation, PRATCO. MR MANTHATA Was the Teachers Organisation, was it just an organisation or was it a Trade Union of some kind, affiliated to SADTU? MR MUNYAI It was Teachers Organisation covering all teachers from the Northern Transvaal. MR MANTHATA It had nothing to do Duarta, the like and that way, that existed before? MR MUNYAI It was not alighting with Duarta, it was a party which formed SADTU later. MR MANTHATA You say you are still a teacher right now. MR MUNYAI Yes, it is true. MR MANTHATA And you are still in that organisation, this Trade Union? MR MUNYAI Yes, I am still in the Teachers' Organisation, but which is SADTU by now. MR MANTHATA Okay, perhaps let me hold it there, thank you. Over to you, Chairman. MR ALLY Mr Munyai, just one or two questions. The first is before August 1989, were you ever visited by the police, did you have any dealings with the police, either security VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 9 T MUNYAI police or the Venda Defence Force, before the incident that you described that happened in August 1989? MR MUNYAI No, there was no such, there were attempts which were made to arrest me which I used to run away from them. But during August ... MR ALLY See that I understand you correctly, you say before August 1989, before this incident with the students, you say that there were attempts to arrest you, but you managed to get away? MR MUNYAI There was no attempts of the police trying to arrest me. MR ALLY Do you have any idea why the police would have come to you in August of 1989 to arrest you and to accuse you of inciting students? Was this that others may have informed on you or had you spoken out and said anything? Why would they have come specifically to your house? MR MUNYAI I do not know, because there was no charge laid against me and I was released without a charge laid against me. MR ALLY Before this arrest, did you indicate in any way that you were perhaps apposed to what was happening in the former Venda land, remember that these events were taking place during the period of the celebration of ten years of independence. Did you in any way indicate that you were not in favour of this, did you speak out against this in any meetings or anything like that? MR MUNYAI What, in my heart I was not interested in that and I was hating this independence and I used to criticize it. MR ALLY Did you publicly criticize this independence, maybe at your school or with other fellow teachers? And VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST 10 T MUNYAI just one final question, I know that my colleague here did ask you about it, but I wasn't sure about your answer. About your eyesight, we would just like to know whether you're saying that the damage which was done, was it, is it permanent damage or do you still have problems because you don't have the correct spectacles, the correct as you say in your statement eye glasses. What is the problem is it one of the glass that you have or have you been told that there is actually permanent damage to your eyes? MR MUNYAI My eyes are damaged to such an extent that I must use spectacles. Without spectacles I cannot see things which are in a distance. MR ALLY Thank you very much Mr Munyai for coming forward and for sharing your story with us. Thank you.