hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-15 WINELANDS 2 CT/00259 ANDILE NDINISA ANDILE NDINISA DETENTION, SHOT BY POLICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56120&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/ct00259.htm DR ORR Andile I just want to check that you can hear me through [indistinct] , can you hear me now? You can hear the translation coming through? MR NDINISA Yes, I can hear. DR ORR [indistinct] who has come with you today to offer you support. Before we hear your evidence can I ask you to stand to take the oath. ANDILE HUBERT NDINISA Duly sworn states DR ORR MR NDINISA Then I felt something hitting me on my back and once more another one hit me on the back - 3 times I was hit on the back. Then I fell and collapsed, then this particular person jumped over the fence - it was a policeman and he continued to shoot me and he shot me 4 times in addition to the 3 wounds I had. And then the owner of the house intervened. DR ORR Take your time Andile, I can see that this is very difficult for you. MR NDINISA So they asked my mother to wait for me to recover, so I kept in hospital for a while and one day policemen came to the hospital. They were coming from Paarl and they took me from Tygerberg, despite that the doctor who was in charge objected to all this. Because I was still in a bad condition, then these policemen said they wanted me but they told lies to the doctor which means that they had intention that I was going to die on my way. So we used a road that was unknown to me, we drove trough farms and these policemen who are in the front of the van were laughing at me. And I still had stitches on my operation so they took me to a Police Station. I then made a request that they should inform my family but they told me that my family knew that I was there. At night I complained that I was in pain, I wanted to go back to hospital and they said they would see. Then the head of the Police Station asked them not to keep me there longer because he was going to be held responsible. So I was removed in an ambulance and taken back to Tygerberg Hospital. DR ORR I want to ask a few questions just to be clear in my mind exactly what happened that night. You were running away and knocking at the door of a house to seek safety and then you were shot in the back. And you then fell down and the policeman came up to you and shot again - another 4 times while you lying on the ground. MR NDINISA Yes. DR ORR Do you know the name of that policeman who shot you? What is his name? MR NDINISA It was Abel Ntlati. DR ORR [indistinct] in Mbekweni or in Paarl? MR NDINISA DR ORR Was there ever a court case brought against Abel Ntlati? MR NDINISA There was a court case and he said the - I was shot by the head of the detectives who was out of duty - he was off duty at the time and them it ended there. So that lawyer asked my mother to institute a claim but my mother said she did not have the money to pay the lawyer. It would be very expensive so some people offered some help. So we went to some offices in Cape Town - we filled in some forms and they said they were going to call us after 6 months to tell us when we were going to appear in court and they said they were going to find out how much the policemen was getting as a salary but for 2 years we did not get any response. When I asked my mother to make a follow up, my mother refused because she said they were fooling around so we just left everything like that. As I am growing up some people are asking me to pursue the matter. I did go to that lawyer and that lawyer said he did not succeed and yet he spent a lot of his money because the people who had instituted the claim just left everything behind. So he advised me to go to the lawyers for Human Rights, then I did not do that because I felt even my mother was not concerned about this whole matter. DR ORR You say that you were a student at the time that you were shot, did you go back to school afterwards? MR NDINISA I was discharge from hospital in March and I could still walk and my mother said they were going - not going to readmit me at school because I had gone mad at a certain stage. DR ORR MR NDINISA So my mother said they were not going to readmit me at school because I had gone mad, then the principal had readmitted me to school. But at school the operations were giving me some problems so I could not sit for a very long time. So I then decided to leave school, then the following year I went back to school and I passed my Std 5 and continued with my education. Then in 1987 I just took a decision to leave school and go to work. So I stopped going to school, so my mother suggested that I should go to social workers and I did go and they said they could not help me with my case. So they - they promised to send me to Tygerberg. So in [indistinct] I started receiving the disability grant and I went back to school and I passed Std 7, Std 8, Std 9 and last year I was doing my Std 10. But I failed two subjects. DR ORR MS NDINISA Duly sworn states DR ORR Can you go ahead and give us any additional information which you would like us to have about your son. MS NDINISA Then I decided to go and look at the person, I went into the ward and I saw that there was a policeman that was on guard. And I asked this policeman whether he was still alive. There were some breathing devises that he was using so the doctor asked me not to talk to him because he was in a bad state and I was crying but the doctor asked me to leave and go home. In the morning I went to the advise office and - to give them a report that I had seen Andile. I went to the Police Station and I asked for the head of the police and the Investigating Officer and I was told that it was - it was Willemse but there was not case as yet. So I met Willemse and he told me that he was busy so I kept on visiting my son in Tygerberg. So one Saturday I went to the hospital and I was told that Andile had been discharged - in fact he had been taken away by the police from Paarl. And queried why they could do that because he still had this bullet on his back. Than I got onto a train and went to the Police Station where I found 2 ladies and - who said to me that there was no hope that my son was going to leave. And they had - Andile had asked these 2 ladies to tell me that he was in pain. So I asked the police to allow me to see my son but they refused. Then I talked to Randindi to take the food to Andile, then he asked me to take the fruit away but took the other food. I would tell them I was told to sit there, after a long time April Thladi with Willemse came stood at the door and looked at me and they called me. We went up to the upper floors of the Police Station and they asked me about Marchels, I told them I knew nothing about Marchels. They asked me about my children, then I said I knew nothing about my - the activities of my children. And so Andile was released, so a certain man from Cape Town [indistinct] came to explain to me that the State was saying that Thladi was off duty at the time. So I wanted to find out why he had used a gun when he was off duty. DR ORR [indistinct] you and your son have both been through very difficult times. I have now - I have no further questions and will hand you back to the Chair. MS GOBODO Thank you Wendy, anybody with questions? UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Andile just a number of short questions. You said that you are taking a computer course at the moment, do you have an income - are you able to work? MR NDINISA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] what kind of work would you like to do? MR NDINISA I want to be educated but I do not have finance. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] for a professional [indistinct] MR NDINISA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER I just want to ask you another question. You said that your mother complained that after the horrible things that happened to you that it seems that you were going mad. Did you at any time receive psychological treatment? MR NDINISA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER MR NDINISA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] question, you must be 27 years of age if I calculated - calculated correctly, are you married, do you have a family? MR NDINISA I do have children - [indistinct] 3 UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER 3 children? MS GOBODO Children who were 16 years of age at that time, were getting lost because of there adolescent stage but for the black people all those children who disappeared their parents they had to go to hospitals and Police Station looking for their children. This is what was happening to the youth during your time. We are happy that your are here today to come and share with us how you nearly lost your life, we are happy that you are able to come and sit here and tell us everything about your pain. You were at school and you had goals but all those goals were shattered. Then it means that you lost your life in that way, you are still trying to compose it now. We are going to assist you in trying to recompose your life, we are going to expose you to our Reparation Committee that is going to assist you with your life. We also thank you Ms Ndinisa for accompanying Andile, thank you.