hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-15 WINELANDS 2 CT/00274 MALUSI MATHELELE PHILEMON QUMZA SHOT & KILLED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56126&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/ct00274.htm DR ORR REV QUMZA Yes. DR ORR REV QUMZA DR ORR PHILEMON QUMZA Duly sworn states DR ORR REV XUNDU Thank you Chairperson, Rev Qumza I can see [indistinct] which congregations do you come from? REV QUMZA REV XUNDU Which congregation? REV QUMZA C.C.A.C. REV XUNDU Is that the elder of your church next to you? REV QUMZA REV XUNDU Thank you, these people are in your church? REV QUMZA Yes, he was in my church - he was a member of my church. REV XUNDU According to this report we are told of how he - Malusi died. I wonder if you could briefly tell us what was happening in the township - what was the situation at the time. Could you briefly tell us please? REV QUMZA Thank you sir, I will. First of all I would like to say at the time here in Mbekweni I was from Thabanshu from - from a - I was under Bishop Ian Motega who stays in Xhoxho. When I left Mbekweni there was no unrest. People were one in spirit, they were fighting - they had the same aim. They were struggling to active freedom for their country. I left midyear and when I came back there was division - there were 2 organizations and people belonged to these opposing organizations. When we got to Mbekweni, the police - there were some police that were called INKATHA. There were soldiers - when you would enter the township it was very difficult because there were always roadblocks. That was the situations - when you would leave the rent office there would be tear gas every where. From the office to your house. REV XUNDU So you got to the location from Thabanshu and there was conflict between the 2 organizations? Some were PAC, AZAPO, AZANYU and then the UDF, is that so? REV QUMZA Yes, sir that is so. REV XUNDU And apparently the police were working with the PAC, AZAPO, AZANYU? REV QUMZA Yes, the police sided with the PAC, AZAPO, AZANYU. REV XUNDU Lets continue. Mathelele Malusi which organization did he belong to? REV QUMZA Mathelele Malusi was a person who was slightly mentally disturbed. He had - he belonged to no organization as such. REV XUNDU So that particular night, could you briefly tell us how Malusi got injured. REV QUMZA We could not safe our children in our homes - they could not hide in our homes. REV XUNDU So what you are saying is that the police at that time had no respect for human life? REV QUMZA REV XUNDU [indistinct] evening of the incident? REV QUMZA We were preparing for the conference. I therefore had to go to a place called Boere Centre in Paarl. I went to Boere Centre - I first went to the Police Station to ask for a book. I asked for a document so that people could attend the conference and not be turned away by the police and the soldiers. We could not go to church, it our people were going to church, tear gas was thrown in. So went to ask for special permission, I went to the Police Station, the Police Station sent to the Magistrate at Boere Centre. I went to the Magistrate at Boere Centre - this - his office is - is on the Main Street. I got this document that I needed, I then came back with the document. I asked myself that what should I do with this document. Then they said that I must keep it with me all the time. The Police Commander who will be handling the soldiers, I would know later because they would inform me later. REV XUNDU Lets go back to the incident where Malusi was killed. REV QUMZA The conference had not started, we were preparing for the conference. When I came back I was out casted by the police that were called INKATHA. I - I showed him the - the document, he then said he would speak to his team and that was that. Then there is an area within the yard that called [indistinct] . The police were then really throwing tear gas all over. As Malusi went inside the church and I was going into the car, tear gas got even worse. I was taking everybody home - it was damaging our eyes. I was rushing to - rushing delivering people at their homes. When I came back I realized that as this man entered the house he was shot by a police - a Zulu policeman. REV XUNDU Is this the hostel? REV QUMZA Yes, this is the hostel where he lived. REV XUNDU Had he alighted from you car? REV QUMZA REV XUNDU According to your report, the police did not want anyone to help Malusi. REV QUMZA Yes, it is so. He fell on the passageway and as he fell on the passageway - as I asked the people that stayed at the hostel - they were told that they should stay put, they should not move. Everyone around Malusi was told not to move - not to help at all. REV XUNDU Do you know any names of these INKATHA Police? REV QUMZA As the situation was it was impossible to identify the police. As the police are numbered, I have got their specific numbers, I could not even identify this. He was shot at half past 8. He stayed there in that condition the whole night until the next morning half past 11 when a van - a police van came to fetch him at 11:30 the next day. He had died by then. We could not even look at the wound as he was laying on [indistinct] REV XUNDU How old was Malusi? REV QUMZA He was pretty young at the time. I should estimate that he was 22 years of age. REV XUNDU Was he working? REV QUMZA Yes, we had gotten him a job in a place called Klapmuts Concrete. REV XUNDU How long had he been working? REV QUMZA It was not to long but it was a while. REV XUNDU Was he married? REV QUMZA He was still dependent on his mother. REV XUNDU Did he have children? REV QUMZA He was still dependent on his mother, he did not have - he did not children. He was working towards acquiring a wife. REV XUNDU Is the mother still alive? REV QUMZA REV XUNDU REV QUMZA I hurt a lot for the mother. He was working for his mother and he was - he got shot. There was no court case, just to hear exactly what went on. We wherefore had to gather as Capetonians - we have an organization called [indistinct] to help each other bury members of our families. We therefore helped each other to bury Malusi. Therefore if I could get some sort of reparation to - to help me. REV XUNDU So your request as a Reverent - you spent money - you spent money on Malusi therefore you need to be helped in a monetary way as well. REV QUMZA REV XUNDU Had - did Malusi not have any rights at his workplace? REV QUMZA We went to his workplace, there was no back pay there. He only earned for the hours that he worked for. We went to try to get an employment card for Malusi - the card we got stated that Malusi is dead - his employment card is also dead. REV XUNDU Could you give us the name of the firm that employed him because we need to investigate. REV QUMZA I beg your pardon. REV XUNDU REV QUMZA I will give you the address. REV XUNDU Is there a tombstone or a stone that commemorates Malusi? REV QUMZA There is nothing to commemorate Malusi. My elder brother is paralyzed - his leg is paralyzed. His one eye is blind therefore we emptied our pockets and just took a piece of wood and wrote his name on it. REV XUNDU Maybe you would have a request for his tombstone. REV QUMZA I would be very glad that we get a tombstone for Malusi so that even his siblings would see the tombstone. REV XUNDU REV QUMZA Thank you very much. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER REV QUMZA Christian Catholic Church in [indistinct] UNKNOWN Christian Catholic Church [indistinct] UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Thank you very much, the second questions. Can you remember the date of this happening when Malusi was shot? REV QUMZA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER REV QUMZA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] his body? REV QUMZA He was shot at the back of his neck. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER REV QUMZA As we speak here the mother is at home. She is alive today because we feed her, we give her food now and again. Her husband - she does not belong to my church. UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] he helps her? REV QUMZA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER [indistinct] what the pension is, how much money she receives every month. REV QUMZA UNKNOWN COMMISSIONER Those were my questions. ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson, Reverent just one issue. Why did the community refer to this group of policemen as INKATHA? REV QUMZA ADV POTGIETER [indistinct] to say that if appears as if this was a group of police officers who were brought in especially from elsewhere to deal with the community here in Paarl, particularly Mbekweni? REV QUMZA That is a big truth, they are the cause of the slaughter of many people here in Paarl. MS GOBODO Than you Mr Chairman, thank you Denzil, thank you Reverent. Reverent if you had not come here, we would not have heard about Mathelele and his death. As I sit here and listen to your testimony - when you started your testimony I was saying to myself it is so good that people are empathetic towards others such that they would help the other people to appoint where you come to the Commission. But in the middle of your testimony I was shocked when you said you want reparation for having help this man. I then get quite confused because at a Christian example is that one helps another person without expecting anything back. I then wonder what kind of example are you giving us that you - you do such a good deed and then you want to be paid back for that deed. But we thank you for that because these are difficult times. It goes to show that life is tough, Ubunto?? from the heart is no longer there. REV QUMZA The reason why I spoke like this - I spoke like this because I was reveling my heart and I was putting my feelings and desires at the table openly, thank you very much. MS GOBODO