hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-14 WINELANDS 1 CT/00275 PATRIC QUMZA PATRIC QUMZA SEVERELY ASSAULTED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56127&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/ct00275.htm DR ORR The next witness ...[intervention] CHAIRPERSON If you are going out try and do it quietly, if not I will call our new police to stop you. DR ORR Patric I just want to check that you can hear me through the headphones. Can you hear the translation? Can you hear me? MR QUMZA I cannot hear you, you keep going on and off. DR ORR PATRIC QUMZA Duly sworn states DR ORR MR QUMZA Mondi, Mondi get out, the child has been shot. We then ran out, in front of my shack this child was lying there dead. I then asked my wife to open the door. She had in her arm Zokiso who was 6 months old at the time. She also was shot, the shack was made out of planks. The police could see that some damage was done. I took my knife because I was also quite quick, I wanted to investigate whether this was a bullet or what. There was a pole that was next to the shack, in the pole there were bullets. I took out these bullets and put them in a matchbox. I went to a friend of mine who stays next to a school which is now called Desmond Tutu. Around midday I decided that I should go home. A child died. I said And my wife had been shot, I am leaving. I said, he said that I should remain there because it was dangerous to leave. When I was between the A and J block I saw lights on the road. Both sides they were lit, there was a crowd coming towards me. I was active at the time, I was a UDF comrade. We were all comrades in the township, but we were not enlightened. I thought that UDF members do not carry such weapons. The State of Emergency was active at the time, we had to sleep at a certain time, it was quiet. I was sure that it was an AZAPO of crowd of 20 to 40 that was out casting me. I then turned towards the A block, these were mainly halls. There were shadows all over. I thought that I should quickly go past them but I should use another way. They were looking at me apparently because I heard them saying: There, there he is, Patric. He said, they wanted to brake down the windows, they wanted to open the doors. They were coming closer and closer to the house, they were all gathering around the house, the knowing that I was inside the house. When they opened the house there was an electrical box where the cables were. I grabbed the - the electrical box down where the wiring was. I then opened the window and jumped out. It was dark, I ran off towards the supermarket. It had just been rained and it was muddy. When I was crossing the road the light that was there caused them to see me. Sunabom Ghese came towards me, Ganahans, Ivan Bobejani, Thenbagile Mathai they were casting me. I thought that they must just take me and take my life, I am not going to run any more. I heard a young child - a baby. These were my neighbours, I could not believe that my neighbours could do this. Gana then said I must make sure that I was killed, I was not saying a word, I was not moving either because they had already thought I was dead. When they left I was looking at them, they went away. When the ambulance was driving off I realized that I was not alone in the ambulance. I could recognize the clothing, it was my friend Popeye, he was working, his family was not here. I realized that he had died, it was a corpse. I saw the other - another corpse, it was Mabrigde. Ntemi Phike was also there, his corpse was there, I was the fourth one. When I got up I was in Paarl Hospital. There are special beds for the dead that they use in Paarl East, you all - everybody was covered. They then asked - they then asked me who I am, I said: I was given the hospital clothing, just the pants - I was half naked. It was at about 3 in the afternoon, we used the Brackenfell route coming towards Paarl. They then stopped the car at the side of the road, this Coloured policeman asked me what was going in Mbekweni. Ja, big comrade. I then asked: Am I a big comrade? They had a briefcase with them, they opened it, it had a whole lot of money in it. They asked if - they asked if I wanted the money, this - I said: I said. They - I was then taken back to yet another police station. There were Xhosa police there that we referred to as Ingatha. My father had already spoken to them, I stay there for three days. The following day on the Thursday, it was going to be the funeral of the four people who had died. DR ORR [indistinct] emergency regulation? MR QUMZA Yes, it is so. DR ORR MR QUMZA No even once. DR ORR Did you lay a charge against those people, did you - did you accuse them of - of assaulting you? MR QUMZA I was taken immediately, I was dropped off at Groote Schuur. There was E Donsen the secretary there, I then identified myself. CHAIRPERSON Patric we have listened to you, you have elaborated a lot. Maybe you can tell us how long you stayed in Groote Schuur. Were you taken back to prison, could you please tell us briefly what happened because time escapes us. MR QUMZA DR ORR [indistinct] the account of what happened to you that night, you obviously still remember it very clearly and it was obviously a very painful and frightening experience for you to go threw. You said that there was never any court case brought against those people who attacked you, is that correct? MR QUMZA DR ORR CHAIRPERSON Any question? MS GOBODO Thank you very much Mr Chairperson. In order for us to be clear so as to investigate properly, these names that you have uttered Sonabom, Thembagile are they people that are still around? MR QUMZA Yes they are around. MS GOBODO It has repeatedly said that the PAC people were working together with the police. We are not on a witch hunt, but we just want to make sure that these people are truly around so that we can investigate in a proper manner, thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Before we adjourn can we please stand and observe a moments silence in memory of all of those who died in the cause of the conflict which we have been hearing about. Please stand. We resume at 9 tomorrow morning, thank you very much.