hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-10-14 WINELANDS 1 CT/00443 YVONNE DUBE JASMINA DENNIS [ sister] SHOT & KILLED https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56137&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/ct00443.htm DR ORR Ms Dennis welcome to you, who has accompanied you? MS DENNIS [indistinct] DR ORR Your husband, Mr Dennis, welcome to you to. Are both of you going to give evidence or just Ms Dennis? MS DENNIS [indistinct] DR ORR Net me Dennis. Can you stand to take the affirmation please? JASMINA DENNIS Duly sworn states DR ORR Thank you, Adv Denzil Potgieter is going to facilitate your evidence ADV POTGIETER Thank you Wendy, Ms Jasmina Dennis good afternoon. With you is Mr Casiem Dennis, good afternoon to you to and welcome here to both of you. Ms Dennis your evidence goes back to September 1976, to be specific on the 9th of September 1976. We’ve previously heard about an incident would have happened the previous day. It was also a shooting incident when somebody was killed. In your case the victim was Yvonne Dube. Is it your sister? MS DENNIS Yes, it’s my sister. ADV POTGIETER Good, both you and your husband and Yvonne were together on that day. Will you - would you like to tell us what had happened. MS DENNIS On the 9th of September 1976, it was during the fast, I, my sister and my husband went to the shops to buy food. When we came to near the bioscope, people started throwing stones and we were forced to run into Mr Abrahams’ shop. He locked the door and we stood inside until everything had calmed down. Round about 2 o’clock he told us that we could go out and that we could go home. My husband and I and my sister walked home. When we passed the police station I looked around and said there’s a policeman standing there, aiming his gun at us. He’s going to shoot us and she said you can run, I’m not going to run because we haven’t done anything wrong. And then I stood still and my sister started walking on. Then suddenly, while standing there. I heard shots. After that - after this shot had quieted down - I came out and on my way to home my son came running along and said: Mommy, Aunty Eva had been shot. And I said where is she? And he said I’ve picked her up and carried her home. My husband and I went home and when I came there she was laying on the bed and she could still say: Ja, take me to the hospital because they’ve shot me. And she said: Where did they shoot me? And they said they’ shot me because I haven’t done anything. And I said: Wait, we’ll go home to fetch the car. When I came there my mother asked me where my sister was and I said: No she’s at my house. Because I didn’t want to tell her that she had been shot. While we were standing there, my eldest daughter came there to tell us that her mother had died and - but I said no she couldn’t be dead, she’s just told me that I had to take her to hospital. We still put her into the car and took her to the hospital. The doctor put her on a stretcher and took her into the hospital. After a quarter of an hour he came out and he told us that she had died on the way to hospital. We got into the car and the doctor said we had to go to the police station. Having arrived there, I told them that I wanted a - to tell them that my sister had been killed and he said: Oh dear, another hotnot-meid had been killed. And I said it not a dog who had been killed, it’s a human being. Then I turned round and went home to tell my mother that my sister had been shot. Thank you. ADV POTGIETER You and your husband are Moslem’s and Yvonne? MS DENNIS She was a Christian, she belonged to the English Church - to the Anglican Church. ADV POTGIETER And you said when this happened it happened during the fast. MS DENNIS Yvonne us where necessary because my husband also looked after her. She was not married. ADV POTGIETER Then she was shot while you were on your way back home from the shop. MS DENNIS After she had said: I’m not going to run because I haven’t done anything wrong. She said: I’m not going to run because I did not do anything wrong. There was no necessity for anybody to shoot her at all. We were the only people in that road. ADV POTGIETER At which police station was that? MS DENNIS It was at Paarl East. ADV POTGIETER When you saw the police, were they carrying guns? MS DENNIS Mr Carstens said you had to go home now - he was the officer in charge and my sister said you could see we were going home. It was his duty to see that that policeman would not shoot us, because there were no people around us. We didn’t do anything wrong. But he did not even do that, he could not stop them at all, he did not try to stop them at all. ADV POTGIETER So it was only one policeman who shot at you? MS DENNIS Ja, it was only one policeman with a gun standing at the door ADV POTGIETER And it looked as if he was going to shoot? MS DENNIS Yes, he pointed the gun at us and that’s why I ran away but she didn’t run away. ADV POTGIETER Did you know that policeman? MS DENNIS No, I didn’t know him although he was stationed at the Paarl East police station - he was a white man. ADV POTGIETER Do you know where Yvonne was shot - was she in somebody’s yard or was she in the road? MS DENNIS Yes, no END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A… [indistinct] husband were estranged. ADV POTGIETER They were estranged at that stage? MS DENNIS Yes, she had five children. ADV POTGIETER And they all - they lived with her? MS DENNIS Yes, they all lived together. Her baby child was 13 years old. She supported her children with my husband’s assistance because she also didn’t work. My husband was a hawker and she assisted him. ADV POTGIETER Yes, she helped Mr Dennis. MS DENNIS The income she obtained was from my husband. ADV POTGIETER The income she obtained from helping your husband she used to bring up her children. She was about 43 when she died and the children were they still young? MS DENNIS Yes, the eldest daughter were just over 20 years. ADV POTGIETER When she died, what happened to the children? MS DENNIS My husband had to care for the children because they had no income. He was a hawker and then he had to care for 2 households. He accepted the responsibility to also support those 5 children. We also had to bury her. ADV POTGIETER Do you have your own children? MS DENNIS Yes, we have eight children and we had to bring them up as well. ADV POTGIETER You yourself did not work? MS DENNIS No, I didn’t work, only my husband worked. ADV POTGIETER Was there a court case after this incident afterwards? MS DENNIS Yes, there was. The Magistrate asked Captain Carstens whether he ordered the people to shoot and said no he never ordered them to shoot. Then the Magistrate asked why did the policeman shoot at these people and he said he couldn’t answer that question. ADV POTGIETER What happened to the policeman, was he punished? MS DENNIS No, because the Magistrate said if I was not able to identify the number on his jacket, they could not accuse him. So the two of them told them that I could not say who actually shot because I have no real evidence and therefore nothing happened afterwards. ADV POTGIETER Was any claim instituted for any money? MS DENNIS Nothing, nothing at all. Not a sent we received. ADV POTGIETER Ms Dennis is there anything else that you would like to add before I turn to Mr Dennis? MS DENNIS I just want to say that I was very sad to loose my sister in such a way. After we did not do anything wrong, I felt very sorry that she was shot dead like a dog and I felt very sorry for her children because they had no parents to care for them. And it was very hard for them and if it were not for my husband, I don’t know what would have happened to them. The eldest one is still without work and I still have to care for him. I can’t let him sleep in my home and there is not even money to look after - to care for him because he is sickly. I would like that a plan would be made that he can get disability grant because he - perhaps is very ill. ADV POTGIETER How do you feel about this incident, about this police just shooting down your sister in the street and the court finding that nobody could be kept responsible? MS DENNIS I felt very sorry that they said they could not do anything because it was on of their people who had shot my sister. ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much, Mr Dennis can you just come nearer to the microphone please. Thank you very much, we have listened to what your wife has said and we know the circumstances surrounding this case. Is there anything you would like to add to this evidence? Please go ahead. MR DENNIS It was a very hard time for us and at the moment I also get a disability grant because I have problems with my back. I looked after those five children - Yvonne’s five children and what I would like to request is a tombstone for her grave. ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much Mr Dennis. Is that all you wish to add? Thank you very much for coming here today. MR DENNIS Thank you very much. ADV POTGIETER I have no further questions. CHAIRPERSON Are there any other further questions? Mr and Ms Dennis once again one needs to say that it is unbelievable that incidents like this could take place in our country. And as you alleged that the police could say things like they did when you went to the police station to report your sisters death. Things about hotnot and things like that. We would like to say that we feel very sorry and very sad especially about - about your suffering. And we hope the fact that we have a new dispensation today - now today we are a free nation and your sister’s death made a contribution to this process of liberation. But we will try to establish who was responsible for your sister’s death. We have listened to your requests, to your husband’s request for a tombstone but thank you very much for coming here today. Thank you that you are people who do not have revenge in your hearts. We want to say that we are a very happy country to know that there are people like you and Mr Viljoen and others who can say: No we are willing to forgive. Thank you very much. MR DENNIS Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to speak the truth today. Thank you.