hrvtrans APOLOGIES TO TWO FAMILIES AND THE COMMUNITY, PHILEMON MAKINA MAXAM 1996-10-16 WINELANDS 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56145&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/maxam.htm PHILEMON MAKINA MAXAM Duly sworn states MS GOBODO Good morning Mr Maxam can you hear me? MR MAXAM Good morning Ms Chairperson. MS GOBODO What is your clan name? MR MAXAM Msango Kwalo. MS GOBODO We welcome you - we welcome you this morning as you are going to give your testimony. A testimony that is different from the usual, a testimony of forgiveness, this is what this Commission is about. We thank you for coming forward so that even those people that are still in the dark can see the necessity of coming forward to ask for forgiveness. Did you grow up in Mbekweni or did you grow up elsewhere? MR MAXAM I was born in Mbekweni and I grew up in Mbekweni. MS GOBODO Did you go to school in Mbekweni? MR MAXAM Yes I went to school in Mbekweni until std 8. MS GOBODO MR MAXAM I was a member of MBEKO an affiliation of the UDF. MS GOBODO According to your statement you say you were one of the people in the leadership of the M-plan, could you elaborate what the M-plan is about so that everybody understands. MR MAXAM MS GOBODO So the M-plan was really there to implement the struggle and the goals of this struggle? MR MAXAM Then the M-plan was really the backbone of our communities as - as the white people interfered. MS GOBODO How did...[intervention] MR MAXAM And also to protect the community. MS GOBODO In working with implementing this M-plan please tell us what happened exactly? MR MAXAM MS GOBODO Are you talking about your detention or about your imprisonment. MR MAXAM I was sentences, I am still sentences as I speak now. MS GOBODO Why were you sentenced initially? MR MAXAM I was sentenced for the first time for ten years and two death sentences for having murdered. MS GOBODO So what were you target in the M-plan? MR MAXAM As we should remember the violence in the townships warranted us to protect ourselves and the community as people who have been shot and killed and the police will just hang around the townships. They would just let teargas be in the townships. The M-plan was necessary for such protection. MS GOBODO MR MAXAM If I were to tell the truth and count the houses that we used, I will count the whole of Mbekweni, because Mbekweni was a well mobilized community. MS GOBODO The specific houses that you have listed and the police focused on those house, which are these houses? MR MAXAM MS GOBODO Could you please tell the Commission about 1986, the incident in 1986 where dr Ivan Sieberts mother died. MR MAXAM We will remember that according to the M-plan then as we had to protect ourselves, and had to learn to attack the enemy, we needed arms. Because even the Government was armed within the townships. And the underground structures of the African National Congress there were opportunities for us to acquire these firearms. It is in 1986 that I got involved in the shootings. We had to acquire our arms, as we had to protect ourselves. MS GOBODO Where was this house, was it in town? MR MAXAM This house is not too far from Mbekweni, it is in Vlakplaas. MS GOBODO So what is it exactly that you want to say to the Sieberts family? MR MAXAM I like this question because I will also relieved, because all these years, even before I was imprisoned my mother and my sister Nosipho said I should give myself in to the police. But I was scared because the police had warned me especially Mr Guss he said that where he gets hold of me, he will shoot me. Because - he will not take me to prison because I just slip through fingers. I did not want to give him the satisfaction - this is why I ask for forgiveness from the Sieberts family and all those people that were badly affected. Even those who are still in prison, I ask for forgiveness from the parents of those imprisoned children. MS GOBODO Have you tried to get in touch with the Sieberts family whilst you were in jail? MR MAXAM The connection was between the ANC branch in Mbekweni, my elder brother went to the Sieberts family, to ask for forgiveness. They appreciate the fact that I actually came out to ask for forgiveness, they have forgiven me. MS GOBODO Would you like to shake hands with the Sieberts family to ensure forgiveness. MR MAXAM I trust and believe that it is more real for one to shake hands with the forgiver rather than hear it on the radio or television. MS GOBODO So your request to the Commission is to bring you and the Sieberts family together so as to ask for forgiveness in person. MR MAXAM I would be very glad. MS GOBODO Is your mother and your sister are they still alive? MR MAXAM Yes fortunately they still alive. MS GOBODO Are they still alive? MR MAXAM Yes they still alive. MS GOBODO Have you liased with them about today? MR MAXAM Fortunately my mother is here today - I think my sister is at work.. MS GOBODO I am going to ask you a last question, what is your advice to us in connection with the Mbekweni community? MR MAXAM So that previous sins are not committed again. MS GOBODO What is your advice to the Commission to ensure reconciliation between the two sides? MR MAXAM People should come forward, especially people from Mbekweni. Mbekweni is a peaceful community, you can walk even in the middle of the night and nothing will happen to you. Therefore it is becoming, it is only becoming for people to come forward and confess. I wish the people of Mbekweni absolute peace, even the people I have not mentioned here. MS GOBODO Thank you, I want to read a document here from Ivan Sieberts with the permission of the Chairperson. I am very happy that Maxam wants to make peace, because I too, felt the burden of the anger laying heavily on me over the years, I called his brother, Pat, last year to my office, and told him that I wanted to make peace with his family. I think that statement will go a long way in your heart, to relieve you, to relieve your burden. I hope that now you are in peace. MR MAXAM I want to ask for forgiveness yet again, I want to ask my parents to forgive me, when they heard the news that I had murdered, they were obviously not happy about it, they were grieved, all these years they have been so grieved. My father died whilst I was in prison, I ask for forgiveness from my home, even my children. MS GOBODO Do you have children and a wife? MR MAXAM MS GOBODO You want them to know that such a thing should not be committed again. They have seen me, they know where I am at, they know my aims for the future. Thank you very much Mr Maxam I will ask the Chairperson to take over. ADV POTGIETER MR MAXAM Yes sir it is so. ADV POTGIETER And were you convicted of - of how many offences? MR MAXAM Two offenses of murder and an offense of having broken into a shop. I was sentenced to ten years and two sentences of death. But because of my attorney, Ms Jones, in 1992, 23rd March, according to the petition from Mbekweni with 68 signatures they then turned my sentence around to 25 years only. It has been 7 years that I have been in jail, serving that sentence, I have never - I was never allowed to be bailed out. ADV POTGIETER How long is still left of the sentence, how long must you still serve? MR MAXAM It will be until 2004 - 2007 should I be serving effectively. According to the new Prison Laws, as a first offender I qualify for this especially with support from the community. The Prison authorities, because I work well with the police and with the community, the parole board will then vote in my favor. I am in the recreation committee and I work in the library in prison. The parole board saw me last week on Friday, they will call me after a while. My release depends wholly on the parole board, I am prepared to serve my whole sentence. I - it is not that I want to be released through amnesty as such - I am committed to my responsibilities within the prison. ADV POTGIETER I appreciate that [indistinct] upon the issue that I wanted to come to, your - of the offenses of which you were committed, were committed within of which you were convicted were committed within this implementation of the M-plan obviously within a political context. And what I wanted to bring to your attention or to ask you is whether you are aware of the amnesty provisions which relates to this Commission and whether you have in fact applied? MR MAXAM According to the amnesty committee I have not received a report. I made a requests to the National Council on Indemnity before the Truth Commission was established. Therefore they would [indistinct] to me to ensure me - to inform me as to what happens. I have been advised to apply for amnesty to the Truth Commission. I will - I can only follow the procedures if I receive guidance. ADV POTGIETER And it would be a pity if a person in your position, an application from you is not considered or is not brought to the Commission at least for consideration. So I thank you very much for that information. MS GOBODO Thank you, you may go.