hrvtrans STATEMENT BY MR ADAM McCLUNE 1996-10-16 WINELANDS 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56146&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/wineland/mcclune.htm DR ORR Good morning to you Mr McClune and I believe you have your wife Lilian with you, is that correct? MR MCCLUNE Yes. DR ORR Before I lead you in your evidence would you please stand to take the oath. ADAM McCLUNE Duly sworn states DR ORR Thank you very much, please sit down. Mr McClune your are going to give us a factual account of what happened in Wolseley on the 24th of November 1990. Before you - you tell us what happened can you tell us what your position in the community was at that time. Where you a leader or what was your situation? MR MCCLUNE Yes, that year I was the leader of the Wolseley Civic Organization on - that was established on the 27th of September that year. DR ORR [indistinct] meeting on the 24th of November? MR MCCLUNE Yes, I was present at that meeting. It was a placard demonstration. Before I proceed to tell what happened that day I want to give a short overview of why the Wolseley Civic Organization asked for a permit for a peaceful legal placard demonstration. And what I also wish to tell the Commission is to what happened exactly that day. Wolseley Civic Movement was established on the 27th of September to get the inhabitancy in the Municipal area and the people from the surrounding areas to protect them against oppression by the Police. During that year for example in 1989 the Municipality of Wolseley [indistinct] . During 1990 the Municipality of Wolseley evicted people from their houses. People who were unemployed and could not pay their rent any more. During that specific year in 1989 there was also a shooting incident in Wolseley. People were shot at - people who were coming from the station, that happened on a Friday evening. James September was shot in the leg with sharp ammunition and I thing Adv Denzil Potgieter handled that case if I remember correctly. That was why that organization was established. The members of this organization were also house owners but most of the members were people from sub-economic houses. The Municipality through the years had a fund to maintain these houses and also forums for community facilitation especially for those people living in sub-economic houses. These people also then had a right to - have their houses repaired but they had to sit and wait for a long time and nothing happened. The people from Wolseley felt that there was a need for a democratically chosen Municipal Council which was non-sexist and non-racist. In 1990 the management of the Civic Organization had discussion with the previous board. We were regarded as a Management Committee and we asked for a permit to hold a peaceful placard demonstration. This application was approved and on the 10th of October there was a placard demonstration to the Municipal Offices. One of the grievances was about the Community Hall - the opening of the Community Hall. And now the Town Council distributed a pamphlet in town, the two apartheid institutions namely the previous Town Council and the Management Committee went ahead to open this Community Hall. Invitations were sent to various inhabitants of Wolseley and this cause unhappiness in the Community. On request of the members of the Civics and - all the other people and the management asked a permit for a peaceful placard demonstration. We have the letter of approval we received on the Friday before this demonstration. We received it from the local Magistrate. The main purpose of this demonstration was to show the dissatisfaction of the people in a peaceful management - manner to the Town Council and other high ranking people and people we were going to invite. During this demonstration many of the people invited who were sitting in the hall sometimes went - left the Community Hall stood next to policemen and sheered at the demonstrators. One of them also said: Shoot them dead, I approached a Captain Hougaard who was in charge there in front of the Town Hall and asked him that the - some of the people who were invited were standing next to his policemen and were sheering at these demonstrators and asking to shoot them dead. About 20 to 6 that afternoon the guests started leaving the hall. The Town Clerk - Mr Burmister - and the previous Mayor - Mr Stemmet - were the first to leave the hall and they went to their Kombi. The other guests also approached, Captain Hougaard said and at that stage he took up his megaphone - it was about 20 to 6 and he said he would give the demonstrators 5 minutes time to disperse and right after that - after he said that the previous Mayor said: Shoot them dead. After that the police immediately started shooting. I want to explain that in detail - I want to explain what Captain Hougaard had said and how - what Stemmet had said. The police said I give 5 minutes time to disperse, the Mayor said shoot them dead and then the police started shooting. People started running away, while they were running the police shot tear gas and also with buck shot. I and some other people ran to a yard to get to a tap because our eyes were burning. We went through a back street till we came to the - to the corner of Petunia and Church Street. A group of people was standing there. It was about 800 m from the Community Hall, at that stage 2 police vans arrived at the Community Hall. The lawyer returned to Bellville and we went back to our houses. Early the next morning people telephoned me that a certain person with the name - by the name of Edward Booysen was found in gutter. The police took him to the Charge Office we immediately contacted our lawyer again - that Sunday afternoon he came back accompanied by 2 doctors from Groote Schuur Hospital and also a person who was a specialist in sharp ammunition. The Civic Movement had a meeting that afternoon where these specialist from Bellville and Cape Town and after that meeting we went to the Charge Office. Our lawyer asked Sergeant Krigler who was the Station Commander at that stage to see the body. He gave us permission to see this body and all - I and these specialist took various notes. They took down notes of everything which they noticed on his body and this person - he was a specialist in sharp ammunition said that he was shot wit buck shot and also sharp ammunition. We laid a charge and Edward Booysen and all the other injured were assisted by Stuurman and Advocate Tredoux from Cape Town. Approximately 3 weeks afterwards the police - half past 5 that morning the police picked up these people and laid a charge of public violence, but later this - this charge was withdrawn. This is all I would like to say. DR ORR I just want to clarify one issue before I hand over to the Chairperson and that is around the action or lack of action from Dr Nell. You say that the injured were taken to his consulting rooms and someone called him - phoned him to come and help. Is that correct? MR MCCLUNE Yes, the injured were taken to his consulting rooms by ambulance and when we got there I asked the ambulance drivers if they phoned Dr Nell and they said yes. And we waited but he never arrived. DR ORR [indistinct] MR MCCLUNE No I do not know why never arrived, I cannot say. DR ORR [indistinct] questions. MS GOBODO Thank you, any questions? ADV POTGIETER Thank you Chairperson, Mr McClune just to expand on this question about Dr Nell a bit more. Whom we are expecting to arrive here during the course of the day and come and give evidence. I would just like to put the question to you like this, on this particular day did he treat any of the injured people? MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER Up until the stage where the ambulances left with the injured people was Dr Nell on the seen or not? MR MCCLUNE No he did not turn up at all. ADV POTGIETER How long present there for in front of his consulting rooms? MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER You say approximately 30 minutes after that the injured people were directly in front of his consulting room busy waiting for him? MR MCCLUNE Yes, that is correct. ADV POTGIETER Does this doctor live in Wolseley? MR MCCLUNE Yes, he lives in Wolseley because from his house to the consulting rooms is probably a minute or 2 drive. ADV POTGIETER MR MCCLUNE No, not at all. ADV POTGIETER People assume that the ambulance men would have told the doctor that there are several people who were injured in the shooting incident and that it was a serious situation? MR MCCLUNE Yes. ADV POTGIETER In other words according to this note and as I say the doctor will hopefully turn up a bit later to come and give an explanation but according to this note the doctor says that he was never informed on the 24th about this incident. He merely heard about it the following day on the 25th . What is your reaction to that? MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER MR MCCLUNE No, there were no incidents in that time what so ever. ADV POTGIETER No problems, no confrontations or any thing? But were there no confrontations between the police or any body else? MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER So 20 minutes before the end of the demonstration according to the time that you were allowed Mr Hougaard gave an order that he - you people should disperse? MR MCCLUNE That is correct. ADV POTGIETER We have already started investigating the incident. Our Investigative Unit is looking into the matter and they have compiled a report for us and I would like to mention something to you in this report in case you want to comment on it. It is compiled in English and I am going to read it to you - I am going to read the aspects which I believe are important: I was at the Police Station to see what record were available and I was told that the Occurrence Book makes no mention of any shooting incident as was Police policy at that time despite the fact that 14 people were shot. The Occurrence Book also indicates that the most Senior Officer at the Station was the then Warrant Officer Southy hy sal dalk aan u bekend wees and there are several entries in and around the time the incident is said to have occurred where Warrant Officer Southy is mentioned as the Officer issuing weapons. And although there is absolutely no mention of the shooting incident it says that this Warrant Officer Southy issued firearms to the police at more or less the same time as this - when the shooting incident took place. Then it also says: Now Captain Southy is - he is now a Captain - Police Station had been turned into an operational center on 24-11-90 and that the Officer commanding the operation was the now Senior Superintendent Hagen - another police officer - he was apparently in charge of the whole operation - [indistinct] Southy that the person in charge of the seen where the complainants claim the incident took place was the then Lieutenant Hougaard - the man to who you referred and it seems as if he was the - the person directing this whole thing at the seen. Then there is reference to the - to the trial itself - the court proceedings. Did not seem to remember what he had done on that day but agreed to reflex on the incident that agreed to a request that he come to the hearing to testify. This is what we have at this stage, I do not know if you would like to comment on any of the aspects I have mentioned. MR MCCLUNE ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much Mr McClune. DR ORR MR MCCLUNE That is a very interesting question, I forgot to mention it in my address. Edward Booysen does not know about the incident on that day. He went to play cricket on that day and I do not know where they played - they played elsewhere not in Wolseley and when he came back he - he was still in his white cricket gear and he was shot in his cricket gear. Where they found - that is how they found him in the cannel - in his white cricket clothes. He was not even part of the placard demonstration on that day. DR ORR But [indistinct] shot in the events that surrounded the march, has that issue been cleared up or - or is there still uncertainty about it? MR MCCLUNE What is so interesting is that 2 of the policemen at the time of the shooting the - at the time of the shooting the police moved around in the community and 2 of the policemen went to the former school principal. They ran in at his house and they shot at people from his yard as well. And where Edward Booysen was shot they had to had fired the shots from the school principals yard. That is where they shot him. MS GOBODO MR MCCLUNE Thank you.