hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-05 WITBANK 1 MRS NOMASONTO J KGALEMA JB2133 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56151&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/witbank/3witkgal.htm DR RANDERA Can I ask again is Beryl Harmse here? No. I would like to then call Nomasonto Kgalema. Can I please ask individuals who are taking photographs, not to use their flash cameras as people are telling stories. Thank you very much. I want to welcome a number of groupings who are here to-day. We have the Idamwasa Man and Women groupings here to-day. Welcome to you. It stands for the Interdenominational African Ministers of South Africa. We have Father Paul Johnson and Father Didier Demer. Welcome. Father Rodrigues from the Mpumulanga Council of Churches. From the ANC Youth League, Temba Marabe and Lucas Ngodisi, the Deputy Chairperson and Deputy Secretary respectively. From the ANC we have Peter Mnisi, Chairperson of the ANC in this area. Welcome to all of you. Mrs Kgalema, good morning and welcome. Can you please introduce the person who is with you. MRS KGALEMA She is Swangela Kgalema, my daughter. DR RANDERA MR MALAN Mrs Kgalema, will you please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that your story will contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and if so, just raise your hand and say, so help me God. MRS NOMASONTO J KGALEMA (sworn states) MR MALAN Thank you very much. You may sit down. MR LEWIN MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN Ma Kgalema, could I ask a few questions please. Just take your time, feel relaxed. I know it must be very difficult. Could you take us back to the time that he was shot and explain firstly, what was actually happening? Why were the police on the streets at the time? MRS KGALEMA It was during the unrest when children were fighting in the streets. MR LEWIN What was the cause of the fights? Do you know? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN I think we need to, if we could just get absolutely clear, Jabu at that state must have been aged ten or eleven? MRS KGALEMA Yes, he was ten years old. Policemen and soldiers were just roaming in the streets chasing the children around. There was some random shooting. I was also involved in those shootings. I even have those scars from the bullet. MR LEWIN Can you hear all right through the earphones? MRS KGALEMA Yes. MR LEWIN Was there any particular point to the activity at that stage? Where there any particular protests taking place at the time? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN MRS KGALEMA He was not politically involved. Actually, I had sent him to buy milk and bread. When he got shot everything fell down so we cannot tell what was happening, what the police meant to do by shooting such a young child. MR LEWIN Do you know of other children who were shot at the time. MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN Were the other children be about the same age, or older? MRS KGALEMA They were bigger than Jabu. MR LEWIN And Jabu himself, what exactly were the injuries that he sustained? You say he was shot twice? MRS KGALEMA He was shot in the head, above the eye and in the stomach. MR LEWIN And was it the second of the shots in the stomach that paralyzed him? MRS KGALEMA According to my observation the one that gave him problems was the gunshot in the head because he kept on bleeding from the nose. Time and again he had to visit Verwoerd Hospital in Pretoria in order for them to drain him. MR LEWIN Was there any particular treatment that they gave him at the hospital? MRS KGALEMA Yes, he was given treatment. They inserted pipes which drained blood from the nose. MR LEWIN Did they operate at all in the head? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN What happened to him at home in the ten years after that? How did you look after him? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN How was he able to run in the streets if you say his left leg was paralyzed? MRS KGALEMA He was limping. Actually his left arm and leg were paralyzed but he was able to walk. MR LEWIN MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN Am I correct in saying that you tried in 1987, you tried then to get compensation? Could I ask how you find this lawyer? Who introduced you to this lawyer? MRS KGALEMA We got a friend of ours who assisted us and who referred us to the lawyers with the hope that our child should be assisted because we really did not know how we should assist him. MR LEWIN This was a lawyer in Pretoria? MRS KGALEMA Yes. MR LEWIN MRS KGALEMA No. MR LEWIN MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN Did anyone tell you what was in the post-mortem? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN So, you think there was a very direct link between the original incident when he was shot and the fact that he finally died? MRS KGALEMA MR LEWIN He must have been twenty one when he died Ma? MRS KGALEMA He was going to turn twenty one in July. MR LEWIN Thank you Mrs Kgalema. MR MALAN Mrs Kgalema, just for our records, how do you spell you name, your surname? With a Kg or just a G because I see the correspondence from the lawyers is Kgalema, Galima? We would like to have the correct spelling of your name for our records and I just want to make sure. Should we check this with you later? MRS KGALEMA The spelling is right. MR MALAN DR RANDERA Miss Mkhize? MISS MKHIZE I would like to take you back for clarification. In your statement you stated that the person you referred to as Bafana, who is said to have shot the boy, is an unknown man. According to your statement you stated that he is a neighbour. This Bafana, you stated that he is an unknown man but during that time he refused because it during the difficult times. MRS KGALEMA Even the lawyer indicated that we should bring him along to give evidence but he refused because during that time they feared for their lives. Even now, we tried to talk to him but he refused to come and stand in front of the Commission. He was also a witness to the two kids, mine and one of another family. We know him but he refuses to come forward. MISS MKHIZE The - one was he injured at that time? MRS KGALEMA MISS MKHIZE What happened because it seems that in most cases he was a witness to those incidents? MRS KGALEMA MISS MKHIZE Another thing, you state that it was during the stay-away. What is the explanation that Bafana gives? MRS KGALEMA He just told us that he found him lying on the ground. He cannot tell how it happened. MISS MKHIZE Does it ever happen in the township that a person gets shot and then there are no people to witness the incident? MRS KGALEMA During that time, it was possible because almost everyone was running away for his or her safety. It was very difficult. MISS MKHIZE The last question. Can you please try to explain to us what let to his mental disturbance, that is, after the shooting. Can you just explain the changes of his condition. MRS KGALEMA MISS MKHIZE Towards the end of his life, can you just explain because it seems as if there is something that you are suspecting regarding his death? Was he not with you during that time? MRS KGALEMA MISS MKHIZE Thank you. DR RANDERA Mrs Kgalema, I just want to ask two questions. The first one is for clarification. Earlier on when you were speaking to my colleague, Mr Lewin, you said there was unrest in the township, the children were fighting in the street with the police. We have heard this said so many times. Can you tell us what the elders were doing? What were the parents doing while this was going on in the streets? MRS KGALEMA DR RANDERA MRS KGALEMA DR RANDERA MRS KGALEMA When I submitted my statement he had already died. DR RANDERA