hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-05 WITBANK 1 MR JOSEPH M BUHALI JB2151 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56156&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/witbank/8witbuh.htm DR RANDERA Can I please call Joseph Buhali to the stage. Joseph, good afternoon. MR BUHALI Good afternoon. DR RANDERA MR BUHALI DR RANDERA MR MALAN Mr Buhali will you swear that the testimony that you will be giving will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. MR JOSEPH M BUHALI (sworn states) MR MALAN Thank you very much. MR LEWIN Mr Buhali will you be speaking in English or Zulu? MR BUHALI Zulu. MR LEWIN Zulu. Can you hear clearly through the earphones? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Swikele could you help please? INTERPRETER I would suggest that we tune into Channel Two for the speaker. MR LEWIN Can you hear the translation now? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Swikele, could try putting them on yourself? INTERPRETER The witness is on Channel Three and he would rather have Channel Two, English interpretation. MR LEWIN INTERPRETER We can proceed. MR LEWIN MR BUHALI I come from Lynville. MR LEWIN MR BUHALI Yes, I was nineteen. MR LEWIN Okay. Could you please, in your own time and your own words, tell us what happened? MR BUHALI On the twentieth of May 1976 we had Black Power here in Witbank. I was working for the hospital and the kids came at about three and told me that the violence had erupted in the location. I knocked off at half past four. I was with David Nbenegazi, my friend. We were walking when we came across a group of youths throwing stones. MR LEWIN Thank you, Mr Buhali. Could I just ask some questions of clarification. In your statement you say that when they came to ask they wanted to know whether you were a member of ANC or UDF, ANC/UDF. MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI To my knowledge, no but they asked me if I was an ANC or UDF member. MR LEWIN I know it must be painful going back over it but if you could just give us some details. You say that your face was covered with something. What did they actually use to cover your face? MR BUHALI It was a pantyhose, black pantyhose, a stretching fabric. MR LEWIN And they put that over your head? What were these chemicals? MR BUHALI I think the cloth that they covered my face with had that chemical in it because each time I tried to inhale I would suffocate. I even think it smelt like snuff. MR LEWIN Yes. You also talked about them cutting open your stomach. Could you explain that? MR BUHALI As I was hanging, there was this heavy wood on my right hand and I just felt when ... They did not cut my stomach open but they pulled my shirt so that my stomach was exposed to them. MR LEWIN I see. You say you were burnt. Did they burn you on your stomach as well? MR BUHALI I was burnt, both on my stomach and testicles as well and again on the neck. MR LEWIN You mention in your statement about being kicked. MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN At some stage you talk about being spun round. What actually happened there? Can you tell us? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN You said that you knew Skosana? MR BUHALI I knew him. MR LEWIN But Mashlango is now late. MR BUHALI He has since died. MR LEWIN And Skosana? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN In the police? MR BUHALI Still with the police force. MR LEWIN You mentioned also that your cousin came in and saw you. How did that actually happen? MR BUHALI Where they were ............. (tape ended) MR LEWIN ..................... she saw you. MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI MR LEWIN In your statement you also mention at that point that there was another, you mention the name of another person who was with Skosana and Mashlango. Can you remember that name. MR BUHALI You mean the one who was with Mashlango and Skosana? MR LEWIN Yes. MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Do you know where he is? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN So after all of this, you said that they actually charged you and then they acquitted you. What were you charged with? MR BUHALI They said that was public violence. MR LEWIN Were you just in detention then or were you just awaiting trial? MR BUHALI I was awaiting trial. MR LEWIN Can you remember how long that took? MR BUHALI Yes, I do remember. MR LEWIN Could you tell us. MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Then at that stage you went back to the hospital to work, did you? MR BUHALI I never worked because I was suspended. MR LEWIN They suspended you immediately after you went back? MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN Can you tell us how have you existed in the last twenty years? What has happened to you since then? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN You do get a Government pension do you? MR BUHALI Yes, I do. A disability grant of some kind. MR LEWIN How long have you had that? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN So what did you do between 1976 and 1988? What did you do in those twelve years? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI I had to become a thief to survive until I was employed by LTA and I lost my job soon after that. MR BUHALI And then finally you got your disability grant? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Okay and that was then put onto two tables? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN MR BUHALI MR LEWIN During the torture. What did you think was happening to you? MR BUHALI MR LEWIN Would you have in fact done anything that they would have wanted you to do? Answered any question that they wanted you to answer? MR BUHALI You mean I could answer. Please repeat your question. MR LEWIN Did you feel that you had to answer all their questions at that stage? MR BUHALI If I knew anything, I would have exposed it to them but because I had no information or knowledge of anything, I kept quiet. MR LEWIN And so they continued to torture you? MR BUHALI Yes, they continued and told me repeatedly that I was lying through my teeth. MR LEWIN Mr Buhali, thank you very much. Mr Chairman, I have not further questions. DR RANDERA Hugh, I mean Wynand? MR MALAN Mr Buhali, were they asking you any specific questions when they were torturing you? MR BUHALI I remember the questions they asked me. MR MALAN What kind of questions did they put to you apart from whether you were UDF or ... Was it not PAC that you were thinking of? ANC/PAC? MR BUHALI MR MALAN You said in your statement and in your evidence that they were applying this electric shock method till you started to scream and then they asked you whether you were prepared to talk. Was it just a general question or did they ask you about individuals? Did they ask you any specific questions, did they ask you about leadership? What kind of questions did they put to you? Can you recall any of them? MR BUHALI They told me that one of the school children told them that I took part in throwing stones as well. MR MALAN You say that you did not open a case because you feared that they would repeat the torture? MR BUHALI That is correct. MR MALAN So you did not report this to anyone at the time? MR BUHALI You mean I never reported the matter to the attorneys or to the police station? MR BUHALI No, to the authorities or attorneys. Who did you report to at the time? MR BUHALI MR MALAN You did also say that the police took you to Doctor Joint. MR BUHALI Yes. MR MALAN For treatment after they hurt you? MR BUHALI That is correct. MR MALAN This Doctor Joint, is he still around, still alive? MR BUHALI MR BUHALI MR BUHALI MR MALAN Thank you, I have no further questions, Mr Buhali. DR RANDERA Miss Mkhize? MISS MKHIZE One question. What confuses the Commission is that the statement takers are talking about UDF and as you are rendering your testimony, you keep mentioning the Black Power and earlier on you said, they said Black Power has invaded the township. Could it be that you were confused when you were giving your statement but now you have a clearer recollection of what was happening? MR BUHALI It was Black Power. MISS MKHIZE MR BUHALI I have one illegitimate child but the other two are my children from my wife. MISS MKHIZE Tell me about this one illegitimate child. When did you ................ MR BUHALI That happened after the incident, in 1980. MISS MKHIZE You said something that is not clear. How did you survive being a thief? MR BUHALI MISS MKHIZE When did you get chronically sick? MR BUHALI In 1986. MISS MKHIZE How did it happen? MR BUHALI I was stabbed on my head and I was paralysed on my left side. MISS MKHIZE Could you explain that incident to us? Is it because of being a thief or were you struggling? MR BUHALI No it has nothing to do with political things or any struggle. DR RANDERA Mr Buhali, is there anything else you want to say before I finish? MR BUHALI DR RANDERA