hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-06-05 WITBANK 1 MR JOSEPH M BUHALI JB2151 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56156&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/witbank/8witbuh.htm DR RANDERA Can I please call Joseph Buhali to the stage. Joseph, good afternoon. MR BUHALI Good afternoon. DR RANDERA I’m glad you we found you and thank you for coming. Joseph you are taking us back to 1976. A year that has gone done in our history already and will of course continue to be part of our history, a very important year because we saw the uprising in Soweto in 1976 and of course ... Are you okay Joseph. MR BUHALI I’m okay. DR RANDERA Thank you. The aftermath of ‘76 was felt throughout the country and of course internationally as well. You have come to talk to us of what happened to you in July of 1976 and Mr Hugh Lewin is going to be helping you as you tell your story but before you do that, can you just raise your hand and take the oath. Mr Malan will help you. MR MALAN Mr Buhali will you swear that the testimony that you will be giving will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. MR JOSEPH M BUHALI (sworn states) MR MALAN Thank you very much. MR LEWIN Mr Buhali will you be speaking in English or Zulu? MR BUHALI Zulu. MR LEWIN Zulu. Can you hear clearly through the earphones? MR BUHALI I’ve go some difficulty. MR LEWIN Swikele could you help please? INTERPRETER I would suggest that we tune into Channel Two for the speaker. MR LEWIN Can you hear the translation now? MR BUHALI I can’t hear. MR LEWIN Swikele, could try putting them on yourself? INTERPRETER The witness is on Channel Three and he would rather have Channel Two, English interpretation. MR LEWIN He wants to speak in Zulu. How’s that? Is that clearer on Two? Did you say something? Okay, is that clearer now? Okay? Are you comfortable, Mr Buhali? INTERPRETER We can proceed. MR LEWIN Can we proceed? Thank you. Mr Buhali, as the Chairman has said you’ll be taking us back to 1976 and specifically July 1976, the month after the events in Soweto. I’d just like to confirm that you yourself do actually come from here, from Lynville? MR BUHALI I come from Lynville. MR LEWIN And you’ll be telling us about the most dreadful torture that took place when you were actually nineteen as I understand it. You were nineteen at the time, is that correct? MR BUHALI Yes, I was nineteen. MR LEWIN Okay. Could you please, in your own time and your own words, tell us what happened? MR BUHALI On the twentieth of May 1976 we had Black Power here in Witbank. I was working for the hospital and the kids came at about three and told me that the violence had erupted in the location. I knocked off at half past four. I was with David Nbenegazi, my friend. We were walking when we came across a group of youths throwing stones. On Friday the 23rd, at half past four, the police came to my work. Juza Sithole and another White policeman and Juza approached me and said, JC, my nickname is JC, he would like to question me with regard to the Black Power and they took with them. When we went towards the White hospital they used their telephone in the car and spoke about something. When we got the Medical Centre we got out the car, now we have Cosmos offices there and I found a man waiting for me there and he said to me, you are a preacher’s son but you are full of nonsense and they handcuffed me. He made it so tight that I felt pain and he took me into a room and kept me there. At about six they took me out of that room and showed me three other students, George, Jeremy Mabeni and Makuskus Nkosi. They had injured them with their handcuffs as well. They told me that if I don’t want to tell the truth, they will torture me. They took me back into one room where there was a CID by the name of Skusana and they tried to strangle me. They tortured me and also covered my face so that I don’t see anything. There were some chemicals that they inserted as well so that I’d suffocate and they told me to sit down. I told them I can’t sit down because I can’t see anything. They entwined my feet and made me carry this heavy wood with my right hand. That’s the fashion they tortured me in. They asked me if I was an ANC member and they asked me if I knew anything about the Black Power and I said, no. They opened my stomach, they cut open my stomach. There was Olivier and Mashlango who is late. He was interpreting for me whilst the other White man was talking in Afrikaans. They asked me if I knew anything about Black Power and I said, no. They burnt me on my neck and on my testicles as well. They said if I don’t want to tell the truth and put the truth on the table, I will regret it. I heard the door open and I wondered what they were up to them. They asked me if I was ready to say something and I said, there is nothing that I know. They also burnt me on my testicles again and I urinated on myself. The other three that they showed me, Makuskus is my relative, she’s my cousin. When she saw me she screamed and said, why do you torture him that way? They kicked her as well and I was taken into a dark cell in isolation. On Saturday they took me to the district surgeon, Doctor Joint who gave me some pills to take. On Monday I was taken to the Court of Law and the case was remanded and I was sent to Paxton. They fetched me on Thursday but they didn’t torture me then. They even bought me a packet of cigarettes. They were adamant, wanting me to tell them what I knew about the Black Power and they wanted Papa Roy. I knew Papa Roy and the other three boys. I’ve forgotten their names. I heard Papa Roy and those boys. They thought I was an ANC member or I was part of the Black Power. They wanted those boys. I was acquitted and they left me alone after that. I was suspended for not being at work. I lost my job, especially because my boss at work was influenced in one way or the other. I only have Standard Eight. That’s all I want to say. MR LEWIN Thank you, Mr Buhali. Could I just ask some questions of clarification. In your statement you say that when they came to ask they wanted to know whether you were a member of ANC or UDF, ANC/UDF. MR BUHALI That’s correct. MR LEWIN This was ‘76. Was UDF around those days? MR BUHALI To my knowledge, no but they asked me if I was an ANC or UDF member. MR LEWIN I know it must be painful going back over it but if you could just give us some details. You say that your face was covered with something. What did they actually use to cover your face? MR BUHALI It was a pantyhose, black pantyhose, a stretching fabric. MR LEWIN And they put that over your head? What were these chemicals? MR BUHALI I think the cloth that they covered my face with had that chemical in it because each time I tried to inhale I would suffocate. I even think it smelt like snuff. MR LEWIN Yes. You also talked about them cutting open your stomach. Could you explain that? MR BUHALI As I was hanging, there was this heavy wood on my right hand and I just felt when ... They did not cut my stomach open but they pulled my shirt so that my stomach was exposed to them. MR LEWIN I see. You say you were burnt. Did they burn you on your stomach as well? MR BUHALI I was burnt, both on my stomach and testicles as well and again on the neck. MR LEWIN You mention in your statement about being kicked. MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN At some stage you talk about being spun round. What actually happened there? Can you tell us? MR BUHALI Skosana put that sack around my face and started spinning me around and assaulting me. That’s how they were able to tighten this cloth on my neck and I suffocated. MR LEWIN You said that you knew Skosana? MR BUHALI I knew him. MR LEWIN But Mashlango is now late. MR BUHALI He has since died. MR LEWIN And Skosana? MR BUHALI I’ve seen Skosana some time this year. He’s still around. MR LEWIN In the police? MR BUHALI Still with the police force. MR LEWIN You mentioned also that your cousin came in and saw you. How did that actually happen? MR BUHALI Where they were ............. (tape ended) MR LEWIN ..................... she saw you. MR BUHALI It’s my cousin’s brother. MR LEWIN Oh, cousin’s brother. MR BUHALI He saw me as I was trying to get outside and Skosana wiped my face and I was bleeding profusely. He opened the door and whilst they were going out, that’s when my cousin’s brother saw me. Right at that moment. MR LEWIN In your statement you also mention at that point that there was another, you mention the name of another person who was with Skosana and Mashlango. Can you remember that name. MR BUHALI You mean the one who was with Mashlango and Skosana? MR LEWIN Yes. MR BUHALI He’s Captain Olivier. MR LEWIN Do you know where he is? MR BUHALI I don’t know his whereabouts now. The last time I saw him was then. MR LEWIN So after all of this, you said that they actually charged you and then they acquitted you. What were you charged with? MR BUHALI They said that was public violence. MR LEWIN Were you just in detention then or were you just awaiting trial? MR BUHALI I was awaiting trial. MR LEWIN Can you remember how long that took? MR BUHALI Yes, I do remember. MR LEWIN Could you tell us. MR BUHALI From July and I was freed in October, the 23rd, 20th or 23rd, I’m not too sure about the date but in October anyway. MR LEWIN Then at that stage you went back to the hospital to work, did you? MR BUHALI I never worked because I was suspended. MR LEWIN They suspended you immediately after you went back? MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN Can you tell us how have you existed in the last twenty years? What has happened to you since then? MR BUHALI I’m disturbed emotionally because I think if I hadn’t lost my job I would be far away now. Right now I earn a pension from the Government. MR LEWIN You do get a Government pension do you? MR BUHALI Yes, I do. A disability grant of some kind. MR LEWIN How long have you had that? MR BUHALI Since 1987. I’m sorry, since March 1988. MR LEWIN So what did you do between 1976 and 1988? What did you do in those twelve years? MR BUHALI You mean between 1976 or after I’d lost my job? MR LEWIN After you’d lost your job up until the time you got your disability pension. How did you survive? MR BUHALI I had to become a thief to survive until I was employed by LTA and I lost my job soon after that. MR BUHALI And then finally you got your disability grant? MR BUHALI That’s correct. MR LEWIN Could I just confirm, all the disabilities that you’re talking about, that you have described to us, they all come from the time that you were actually in detention? MR BUHALI That’s correct. MR LEWIN Mr Buhali, could I just ask one final question so that we’re quite clear. You talked about being, you said you were hanging and in your one hand you had this heavy weight and you said you were hanging. Can you explain this? What was actually happening there? MR BUHALI I don’t know how to demonstrate and explain this. This is confusing. They had handcuffed my hands and put my right in-between my knees and they had wood, heavy wood, right on top of my right hand. MR LEWIN Okay and that was then put onto two tables? MR BUHALI That’s true, yes and then I hung in-between. MR LEWIN And you were hanging there in-between and you couldn’t get out of that? MR BUHALI Yes. MR LEWIN This was a torture that was used particularly in the ‘60’s and then again in the ‘70’s. Can you explain to us just finally, what it felt like? How did you feel when that was happening? MR BUHALI I don’t understand. Do you mean after the torture or at the end of the whole thing? MR LEWIN During the torture. What did you think was happening to you? MR BUHALI I thought I was dying because that was my first encounter with that kind of torture because each time they wired me I felt as though there’s something that’s stinging me, or the bees. I was in a complete state of, I was surprised and amazed at what was being done to me. MR LEWIN Would you have in fact done anything that they would have wanted you to do? Answered any question that they wanted you to answer? MR BUHALI You mean I could answer. Please repeat your question. MR LEWIN Did you feel that you had to answer all their questions at that stage? MR BUHALI If I knew anything, I would have exposed it to them but because I had no information or knowledge of anything, I kept quiet. MR LEWIN And so they continued to torture you? MR BUHALI Yes, they continued and told me repeatedly that I was lying through my teeth. MR LEWIN Mr Buhali, thank you very much. Mr Chairman, I have not further questions. DR RANDERA Hugh, I mean Wynand? MR MALAN Mr Buhali, were they asking you any specific questions when they were torturing you? MR BUHALI I remember the questions they asked me. MR MALAN What kind of questions did they put to you apart from whether you were UDF or ... Was it not PAC that you were thinking of? ANC/PAC? MR BUHALI I don’t remember. I think there was ANC or UDF and PAC, I don’t quite remember. They asked me if I was a member of UDF or PAC or ANC because they would through that question to me and each time I screamed, they will leave me and when I kept quiet, they would continue asking me again until I urinated on myself. MR MALAN You said in your statement and in your evidence that they were applying this electric shock method till you started to scream and then they asked you whether you were prepared to talk. Was it just a general question or did they ask you about individuals? Did they ask you any specific questions, did they ask you about leadership? What kind of questions did they put to you? Can you recall any of them? MR BUHALI They told me that one of the school children told them that I took part in throwing stones as well. MR MALAN You say that you did not open a case because you feared that they would repeat the torture? MR BUHALI That is correct. MR MALAN So you did not report this to anyone at the time? MR BUHALI You mean I never reported the matter to the attorneys or to the police station? MR BUHALI No, to the authorities or attorneys. Who did you report to at the time? MR BUHALI I only told the Black Power guys about it because they were my friends and we were quite close as well as other friends in the township whose names I won’t disclose. They were the ones who paid my bail. As for Attorneys, Pastors or Reverends, I never made mention of this to them. MR MALAN You did also say that the police took you to Doctor Joint. MR BUHALI Yes. MR MALAN For treatment after they hurt you? MR BUHALI That is correct. MR MALAN This Doctor Joint, is he still around, still alive? MR BUHALI Doctor Joint is working for the Witbank District Surgeon’s offices. MR BUHALI So he’s still the District Surgeon? MR BUHALI Yes, he’s the District Surgeon. MR MALAN Thank you, I have no further questions, Mr Buhali. DR RANDERA Miss Mkhize? MISS MKHIZE One question. What confuses the Commission is that the statement takers are talking about UDF and as you are rendering your testimony, you keep mentioning the Black Power and earlier on you said, they said Black Power has invaded the township. Could it be that you were confused when you were giving your statement but now you have a clearer recollection of what was happening? MR BUHALI It was Black Power. MISS MKHIZE We have to be clear about that because it would seem that what you’re saying contradicts your statement. You talked about three children. Did you have those children after the incident or before? MR BUHALI I have one illegitimate child but the other two are my children from my wife. MISS MKHIZE Tell me about this one illegitimate child. When did you ................ MR BUHALI That happened after the incident, in 1980. MISS MKHIZE You said something that is not clear. How did you survive being a thief? MR BUHALI I wasn’t chronically sick, I could touch and walk and I could do a few other things in order to make my moves. MISS MKHIZE When did you get chronically sick? MR BUHALI In 1986. MISS MKHIZE How did it happen? MR BUHALI I was stabbed on my head and I was paralysed on my left side. MISS MKHIZE Could you explain that incident to us? Is it because of being a thief or were you struggling? MR BUHALI No it has nothing to do with political things or any struggle. DR RANDERA Mr Buhali, is there anything else you want to say before I finish? MR BUHALI Yes, if it is possible, with my Standard Eight qualification, I would appreciate being employed. I’d highly appreciate any kind of compensation. DR RANDERA Mr Buhali, your torture that you’ve described so aptly is reminiscent of so many other stories that we’ve heard. I want to say that this idea you put forward of Black Power in 1976, clearly from the documents we have in front of us, the Black People’s Convention, SASO and other Black conscientious groupings seemed to have quite a lot of influence in this area and clearly you were influenced by that grouping as well. The reason why that question of the UDF has come all the time is because UDF was not formed until the ‘80’s and that’s why people have kept asking about the UDF. Thank you very, very much for coming and sharing your experiences to-day. We have noted your request for employment but as I said earlier, the Commission does not have that sort of power but we will actually make a note of that when coming to a Reparations’ policy. Thank you very much.