<?xml version="1.0" encoding="windows-1252"?>
<hearing xmlns="http://trc.saha.org.za/hearing/xml" schemaLocation="https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/export/hearingxml.xsd">
	<systype>hrvtrans</systype>
	<type>HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS</type>
	<startdate>1996-06-26</startdate>
	<location>WORCESTER</location>
	<day>3</day>
								<url>https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56160&amp;t=&amp;tab=hearings</url>
	<originalhtml>https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/worcest/ct00230.htm</originalhtml>
		<lines count="167">
		<line number="1">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>CASE NO: CT/00234</text>
		</line>
		<line number="2">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>VICTIM: MZIKHAYA MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="3">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>VIOLATION: TORTURE ON ROBBEN ISLAND</text>
		</line>
		<line number="4">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>TESTIMONY FROM: MZIKHAYA MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="5">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>TAPE STARTS IN THE MIDDLE OF QUESTIONS</text>
		</line>
		<line number="6">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="7">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>After three months, two months we were released.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="8">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="9">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Could you please explain to us the reasons and the causes why you were arrested?  Please give us a clear picture of what happened in 1960.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="10">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="11">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="12">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="13">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Which month was it in 1960.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="14">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="15">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="16">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="17">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Is it the only one because you gave us the other dates and months.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="18">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="19">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I think this is the only one, you can forget ...</text>
		</line>
		<line number="20">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="21">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Do  you still remember the month in 1960?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="22">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="23">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I remember the day that we were there, it was on a Saturday.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="24">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="25">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Was it in March?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="26">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="27">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="28">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="29">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Okay lets go on.  From there you were severely assaulted in the van and can you show us exactly where you were injured?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="30">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="31">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I was injured on my ear, my right ear.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="32">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="33">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I can see there is a scar but what else happened in your ear other than the scar which you now have?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="34">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="35">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>There was nothing ever wrong with my ears at that time.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="36">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="37">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Could you please explain to me after you were severely beaten and released from prison, what happened in 1961 and 1962.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="38">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="39">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>In 1961 there was nothing going on but in 1962 in May, people were arrested and detained.  Every week people were being arrested and being assaulted in May, June, July, September and October and all these people were never brought to trial.  We felt that we were going to be finished off by this kind of treatment by the police.  In the end we felt that we wanted the police to release the people who had been detained.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="40">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="41">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>We would like you to explain to us, as you are saying each and every time you were coming from work you would get arrested, why were you arrested, what was the reason for your arrest every day?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="42">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="43">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>They said there was an atmosphere that was leading to chaos, which could lead to anything and they were in a hurry to arrest us.  They just took people and they wanted people to explain what was going on exactly with this atmosphere of unrest.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="44">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="45">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>As you are saying people were electrocuted and caned, can you please try to explain to us who these people were severely treated by the electric wires and the mountain.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="46">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="47">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="48">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="49">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>This place known as Bo-Paarl that you are telling us about, were there houses there where people were taken to?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="50">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="51">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>XHOSA - NO TRANSLATION</text>
		</line>
		<line number="52">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="53">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>As you were going to march was it to protest and ask for the release of those who were arrested?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="54">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="55">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>We as men went out to try and tell the people that we wanted, there were many of us who went along to the chief, some of us went to the police station and I was amongst the group that went to the police station.  On our way there before we actually reached the police station we came across a van which came in between the marchers and said we should stop.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="56">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> Somebody called Bloem Makileni was taken, was shot and somebody else was actually shot by someone called David Mfeni, he was David Mfeni, he was shot.  We were put in the cells and when we came to the police station there were many police standing outside the police station.  Nobody actually said what they were doing or asked what we wanted, we just stood there.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="57">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="58">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> We wanted to get out of the town altogether.  The place was surrounded by police and we were arrested.  We were taken to the police station and kept there.  There were very many of us.  After that we were taken to Roeland Street Prison in Cape Town.  At this place in Roeland Street we stayed for some time and then again sent to Worcester.  At Worcester we were kept in the very old jail and there again we were severely beaten.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="59">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="60">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> I was also shackled at my feet and had the handcuffs on my wrists.  I was tied between two chairs, the sticks were put between my knees and I was pushed and pushed and I was also pushed against the wall and my head was hit against the wall.  During this time I was punched continually.  I was suspended by my handcuffs which were connected to these sticks and I was being swung backwards and forwards and my head was hitting the wall.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="61">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="62">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> They then took the handcuffs off me and the shackles off my feet.  I was covered with blood and my face was very swollen.  They left and then they returned again and said, right are you going to talk now?  I remained silent.  They came with a sack and they put this sack over my head and then they tied the sack on with a rope around my head.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="63">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> Some were at the other end of the wall, some were pulling the rope and they said leave it, so those on the other side left the rope and I was struck down and lost consciousness.  I woke up in another cell and my ears were bleeding heavily.  There was ten of us and they let us out in the early hours of the morning.  As I was looking around even those who were around me were severely injured.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="64">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> We were taken into a place for water and told that we must drink.  I was feeling very thirsty so I drank and I tried to wash my ears.  We were then taken back to the cells.  Those who were severely injured today were taken to us who were beaten before.  That is where the injuries to my ears started, my deafness started there.  It was in December 1962 here in Worcester.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="65">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="66">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="67">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>When was your case?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="68">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="69">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="70">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> The third one was charged, he received 12 years imprisonment and two were discharged.  We were taken to jail and we slept there.  The following morning we were given shorts to wear and we were taken to the docks.  We were handcuffed arm to arm and leg to leg and then we were severely beaten.  After we arrived in the docks we were handed over to the Robben Island police and put into a boat.  When we reached there we were severely beaten again.  When we arrived in the prison we had to take off the clothes which we were given in Paarl and we were given others.  We got tickets as well.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="71">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> The following day we were deployed.  There were Boers by the names of Kleynhans and van der Berg who beat us severely and mercilessly.  I received this scar on top of my eye from van der Berg as well as the scar on my head.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="72">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="73">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Sorry, you spoke of a scar on top of your eye, who beat you there because it is visible?  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="74">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="75">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Kleynhans and van der Berg were the ones.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="76">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="77">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>And the one on top of your mouth, was that van der Berg?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="78">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="79">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="80">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="81">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Could you please show us the scar.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="82">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="83">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>The scar is visible.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="84">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="85">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Are you trying to say that these people were beating you and which object did they use?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="86">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="87">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>They used big knopkierries.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="88">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="89">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Can you tell us how you were tortured and assaulted while you were at Robben Island?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="90">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="91">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> Will you excuse me?  By the time I arrived at Robben Island we were given clothes and we were deployed around the police station.  All the new arrivals were under the command of Pieter Kleynhans.  Pieter Kleynhans was in charge of the field known as Langbou.  Under the guard of Kleynhans we took wheelbarrows with iron wheels and we had to dig until white sand appeared and then we had to plant plants there.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="92">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> Pieter said that he wanted all the drivers to come forward, some did and he showed them the Robben Island lorries.  We took our wheelbarrows and our spades and we worked there.  We were beaten while we were working.  We came back in the late afternoon and the following day it was back to work again.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="93">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="94">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> They beat me on my head with a big knopkierrie, I fell on my mouth and when I tried to get up they beat me again, twice in the waist and my other leg felt numb.  They told me to put the wheelbarrow aside which I tried to do and they told me to come with them.  The supervisors then came along with spades.  Pieter Kleynhans handcuffed me.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="95">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> They dug a grave and with my hands behind my back they put me in this grave with only my head sticking out.  They tried to close the grave.  He took his knopkierrie and pushed it into my penis, then he urinated into my mouth and I swallowed the urine.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="96">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="97">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="98">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="99">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="100">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="101">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="102">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="103">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="104">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Here are these scars.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="105">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="106">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>So you had to sleep with your wounds and your sores that emerged as a result of this treatment?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="107">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="108">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I never received treatment for any of these wounds, never.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="109">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="110">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="111">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="112">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I then went on and was still being beaten by someone called van der Berg.  By this time I was completely deaf in my one ear but the other one was still managing to hear somewhat.  This other ear of mine hears a little.  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="113">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="114">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="115">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="116">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text> We wanted Verwoerd himself come and answer two questions, are we political prisoners or are we prisoners, this is what we wanted Verwoerd to answer.  We were on hunger strike for two weeks and then the supervisor of the jail asked for a few persons to come and talk to him and we were told that the leaders that had caused these disturbances would be locked up in jail.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="117">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="118">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="119">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>We thank you very much.  I would like to ask you a few questions firstly, are there any people that you can remember by name of those who were arrested within Paarl?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="120">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="121">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I would first like to make this request because some people that I was arrested with at that time who were on Robben Island have been hanged since then and some of them who were at Victor Verster also hanged, hanged by the state, sentenced to death.  I will talk about one of them that was at Worcester.   James Henries came to me at that time we ...  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="122">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="123">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="124">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="125">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>At the time you were there did you meet the State President?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="126">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="127">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="128">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="129">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>The last question, you told us about lorries, Robben Island lorries and that people who are able to drive were given lorries, can you explain to us what the lorries were doing on Robben Island?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="130">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="131">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>These lorries were wheelbarrows, they were just making fools of us as there were no lorries only wheelbarrows.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="132">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="133">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>We thank you very much Mr Mkhabile for your report.  When did you meet your wife?  </text>
		</line>
		<line number="134">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="135">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I met her in 1976.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="136">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="137">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>By the time you were release you had reached the stage to take a wife?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="138">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="139">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I had no other way.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="140">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="141">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="142">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>_________________</text>
		</line>
		<line number="143">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>They told us that you loved to sing.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="144">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="145">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>I used to but ever since I became deaf I lost interest.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="146">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>________________</text>
		</line>
		<line number="147">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="148">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>________________</text>
		</line>
		<line number="149">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="150">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="151">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>... my colleagues if there is anything.  Mary?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="152">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS BURTON</text>
		</line>
		<line number="153">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Mr Mkhabile the time that you were so involved in Paarl and in Worcester was a time when ... was very strong, were a supporter of ....?  Maybe Pumla can translate.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="154">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="155">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="156">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="157">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Yes I was involved.</text>
		</line>
		<line number="158">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="159">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>Seemingly they are finished but I would like to ask you a last question.  What would like the Commission to do, what would your wish from this Commission be?</text>
		</line>
		<line number="160">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="161">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="162">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="163">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="164">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MR MKHABILE</text>
		</line>
		<line number="165">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
		<line number="166">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text>MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA</text>
		</line>
		<line number="167">
			<speaker></speaker>
			<text></text>
		</line>
	</lines>
</hearing>