hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-26 WORCESTER 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56167&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/worcest/ct00319.htm CASE NO: CT/00319 VICTIM: JOHN MARINUS FERUS [husband] VIOLATION: TORTURE/DETENTION TESTIMONY FROM: PETRONELLA ESTERHUIZEN CHRISTINA FERUS [mother] MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Can I find out welcome MRS ESTERHUIZEN - who is going to lead - give the evidence - MRS ESTERHUIZEN - are you also - are you - are you the daughter. MRS ESTERHUIZEN No the wife. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Oh! okay, I am sorry thank you, so are you both going to give evidence - okay so you will both sworn in then, thank you very much. DR ORR MRS ESTERHUIZEN DR ORR Thank you very much. Mrs Ferus can I ask you to just take the oath first, would you please stand. CHRISTINA WILHELMINA FERUS (sworn states) DR ORR Thank you very much. Mrs Esterhuizen please? PETRONELLA ESTERHUIZEN (sworn states) DR ORR GLENDA WILDSCHUT Thank you very much Mrs Esterhuizen and Mrs Ferus. Mrs Ferus I would like to ask you, are you Afrikaans speaking or English speaking? ME FERUS GLENDA WILDSCHUT If you feel that you want to switch to English then that is fine thank you. Mrs Esterhuizen you were married to John Marinus Ferus. ME FERUS Yes. GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS ESTERHUIZEN I would prefer you to speak to my mother first as she actually knows the story. TRANSLATOR Please just switch on the microphone. MRS ESTERHUIZEN GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS FERUS Please just tell me where must I start, should I start with his childhood? GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS FERUS GLENDA WILDSCHUT ME FERUS GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS FERUS GLENDA WILDSCHUT Just tell us what you can remember and what you understand. ME FERUS He told us that he fought back when they interrogated him. As far as the boots were concerned the 2 detectives, he said that he had kicked the 2 detectives who had come to interrogate him and as a result of that they tied him up on a chair so he could not fight back. He told me, Mom then, then they really beat me up. GLENDA WILDSCHUT Please take your time. MRS FERUS They would then also return to me and they would say to me, Ferus you must tell your son that he must speak, you must let him know that you want him to tell them what they want to know then we will let him go. All of these things exhausted me and I was a nervous wreck. GLENDA WILDSCHUT So the repeated detentions and imprisonment of your son had quite an impact - an impact on your life. MRS FERUS Yes - yes lady yes - definitely. While he was in detention in Roeland Street, now as I have already told you, I could bring him his clean clothing, and one - there was one day when I went - they told me that Mr Sauerman - he was the highest of the Special Branch. GLENDA WILDSCHUT Yes. MRS FERUS GLENDA WILDSCHUT ME FERUS Yes. GLENDA WILDSCHUT I wonder if we could pause there a little bit and perhaps speak with Patti and ask Patti to tell us from her perspective about Hennie and also to ask her to tell us particularly what happened after he was released. MRS FERUS Yes okay - right Patti. MRS ESTERHUIZEN From where my mother spoke, Hennie was taken into the jail in 1963 and he was in jail until I met him. He was in detention for 90 day on 3 occasions, taken away from his mother. He subsequently went to Robben Island from the years 1967 to 1971. He then came home and was under house arrest for 5 years which he completed. I only met him after this. To give one word to describe our lives, we had a life of hell, even this morning we had an experience of the drama and the trauma that I had to experience as well as my children for the 15 years since his death. They heard things from other people about him which they themselves were not able to experience with him. They could never hear him tell the stories about his experiences and they had difficulty understanding who the identity was of their father and that had impact on them. GLENDA WILDSCHUT GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS ESTERHUIZEN When Hennie was taken into Victor Verster prison in the year that he was out, a father or a husband. During that time they hurt him a great deal. We gained information and we all agreed that we would make a case and we actually won the case in the Supreme Court. I was informed that we could make a claim, he was still in prison in Victor Verster at the time and he had agreed that we could make such a case. We began with it and then Hennie died. It was during that time when he died that we were informed that we cannot continue with the claim because he was now deceased. People were concerned and felt that it might not have been death due to natural causes. We never took this entire matter up because we had no facts with which to work but there was a lack of certainty hanging in the air in this regard. GLENDA WILDSCHUT So it is your feeling that the way in which Hennie died and the refusal to continue with the case subsequent to his death, that something was wrong surrounding his death? MRS ESTERHUIZEN No, this is not my personal feeling but other people gave us this impression that there was something suspicious. GLENDA WILDSCHUT You also mentioned that when we asked you what the Commission could do for you that you want to speak briefly about your daughter, would you give us some idea what it is what you want from us with regard to your daughter. MRS ESTERHUIZEN After his death I found things out. For 15 years I had to again and again find forgiveness in my heart. When I discovered that Hennie had no license for instance, I was wondering how he could have had a license when he was in jail all the time. I had to pay for his car and there were all kinds of financial obligations that we had to take care of, we had to take care of our children. All of these worries had an impact on my life with ... consequences. GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS ESTERHUIZEN GLENDA WILDSCHUT Could you elaborate somewhat, why do you think it is no longer necessary? MRS ESTERHUIZEN As I said people left us these thoughts of suspicion about the circumstances surrounding his death. People cared for Hennie and he was loved by the people of Worcester. They were not able to accept his death. GLENDA WILDSCHUT MRS ESTERHUIZEN GLENDA WILDSCHUT Thank you Patti I have no further questions but maybe my colleagues might have questions for you. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you is there anybody - no. MRS FERUS and Patti we thank you very much for coming to share your pain and as Patti has indicated to share it publicly for the first time. Patti I was extremely humbled by many of the things that you said in your testimony. I think you right to say that these kinds of experiences are a test for ability to forgive. I think you right, therefore we should not take it for granted that when people come up here, coming up with the - a sense of forgiveness, I think what you also pointing out is that we begin to process of forgiveness after processing - our experience of the pain, our re-experience of the pain, what it meant for us to share the pain publicly. And thank you very much for reminding us of our responsibility to the witnesses who come up here, not only for the particular day that they come to give evidence, and their testimony, but the fact that we have to ensure that once that pain has been retouched, we then have other processes that will make sure that, that pain is content, thank you Patti and thank you MRS FERUS. MRS FERUS Thank you very much MRS ESTERHUIZEN Thank you.