hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-24 WORCESTER 1 CT/00820 AMOS DYANTYI AMOS DYANTYI TORTURE/DETENTION https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56175&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/worcest/ct00820.htm DR ORR AMOS DYANTYI Duly sworn states DR ORR MR DYANTYI XHOSA - NO TRANSLATION DONE DR ORR Can you tell us what happened that day when the police came and arrested you and took you away. MR DYANTYI The car was at a very high speed, and you could feel that it was travelling a long distance. Later on I realised that there was something terrible which was going to happen to me, but I felt that I would see what was going to happen at the time. As I was - I was lying on the car, you could feel that the road was corrugated, and you would also feel that it was bumping over the bushes, the way in which they were in a hurry, you could feel that they were really rushing for something terrible. Matshoba, Harry Sibeko and Ivan Kholo and Abel Ligilili were also the members of the civic and we were united. And everybody had confidence in us. Van Loggerenberg stated that he knows what was going on in the location and he knew about our involvement and that was going to be put to and end and he stated that it is you and me inside here and the first thing that he stated was that I know what was taking place at your place, we know what was going on, we know the people who always attend meetings at your place, so you are going to tell us the truth. Then Loggerenberg you could imagine what type of a person I was dealing with. After shocking me, he removed the cube from my face and I was screaming. When I was calling my father - during the Truth Commission Hearings you always see that the people are requested to come forward and present their cases and confess but they never do. So the other thing that I did, I was crying in pain, because the pain that I was experiencing was excruciating, I was praying in my language which is Xhosa and he took - he removed those electric wires from my neck and then they turned me on the other side, he opened my trousers at the back, and then they took these electric wires, put them through my einas and they inserted them deeply. This continued for quite a long time - it was those wires at the buttocks on the neck and this torturing was taking place simultaneously. I would like the Truth Commission and the people who are listening here should just sit down and imagine what was taking place. There is something that they always use by the contractors, I can site an example, it looks like a jackhammer, usually it - it is used for drilling the walls or to draw the concrete - to drill the concrete. But if you look at this one, you could see that it had very sharp iron points and then they took off my trousers - please apologise me for my expression of these emotions. Then they switched on this and also this jackhammer was being used to torture me. I was - at the same time, I had this plastic cube which was covered over my face and even I was trying to - even if I was trying to scream nobody could hear me properly. When I was feeling, I had a nauseous feeling - it looked as if my intestines were going to come out, I was certain that I was disembowelled. The only thing that I could think of at the time is that I was about to die, but I was conscious all the time - physically I was dead as far as I was concerned. You could understand that when you are [indistinct] in the sun or you are sitting around the fire you can feel the feeling when the fire is too hot now, the pain that I was experiencing was beyond that pain that I just presented to you. I could realise that they were not yet finished with me. DR ORR MR DYANTYI At a later stage I was ordered to go to court, so I was charged and they said they found AK47 at my place. They said there were two that they found, but there was no Exhibit which was brought about. When I went to the Supreme Court it was said that now I had committed arson, 29 of us were accused of that, it was said I could be bailed for - then I was ordered to be released on bail, there were also restrictions and I had to go and sign and report at the police station three times a day. So the other time I - I continued doing this, reporting to the police until I had to go to the Supreme Court. [indistinct] Desai and advocate [indistinct] are the people who were defending me - he is now the Judge. It continued for three weeks and we acquitted. My first operation was on the neck, it was the Somerset Hospital, I was transferred to Groote Schuur and that is where I underwent many tests, I was there for head scan, for radio therapy and the third one it was for the bone marrow transplant. The other operation that I underwent was on the stomach, that was the big operation, I struggled a lot and I - even though I was discharged, I was still not feeling very well. And then I was taken to the station so that I can be transported to my place. I felt that I was afraid and I requested that I should be taken to Cowley House. I was just dropped there and that is where we could meet the people who were visiting the relatives at Robben Island. I gave my particulars to one of the caretakers and Ms Dullah Omar came, she was together with the reverend of the Council of Churches and I think it was Winnie Mandela and Ms Mqay who came and escorted me [indistinct] a husband to Hilda and then they escorted me to Worcester because they could see that I was in a terrible condition. Then they left me there. When we came back with Lizo it was discovered that I could not be arrested anymore because when I was arrested the other time we burnt the prison so when we burnt the - we were still continuing with the struggle because the way - it was the way that we demanding attention through the arson that we did in the cells. We knew that every time at Zwelethemba people were organised because of the role played by the Civic. That is how we contributed to the struggle, it was the first time that I could see the people giving much support. DR ORR If you could meet this doctor today, dr Van Heerden who advised the police well to make it look as if you had suffocated, what would you say to him? MR DYANTYI Some of - the people thought that they would be protected by the apartheid system. I am not a racist, you can see that the table here has people who are white people but they are hard, it can be regarded as black because of the support that they give to the black people. Braam Fischer and others, and Slovo are such people. How could we make it happen that those people could be awake today so that they can see the work that they have done, so that today we are here. It is the work of God, its through the will of God that we are here today. But I can state also that the evil is still amongst some of the people, there is good, there is bad and people have a choice to make. So we can regard other people to be working for the evil or the devil. But I believe that if I could see those people, if they could come and confess I think everybody could be relieved and the land could be healed. This pain that we have been enduring is just like cancer. Before we can reach the judgement day, I promise you this land will never be healed before those people and the perpetrators could come here and confess. God never created them to be evil that I am certain about. DR ORR Thank you very much. MR DYANTYI Thank you - thank you. DR BORAINE Are there any further questions. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Thank you Chairperson the comments really - I would like to say shedding tears is very important at times, it is very difficult for us to control our emotions, but if you see somebody sharing what experience she had, you cannot control yourself successfully at times. You gave us a good and clear picture of the type of torture which was experienced by many people. DR BORAINE MR DYANTYI DR BORAINE MR DYANTYI I think he is still here in Worcester and Van Loggerenberg is still here. he is the head of the Security Branch, I always see him around. DR BORAINE But the President of the country appointed this Commission not to heal the country but to play a small part in trying to bring about healing a new human rights culture, a new respect for law and in the process of ordinary people and extraordinary people telling their stories, this is a small part of a contribution which I believe can help as we built a future.