hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-24 WORCESTER 1 CT/07000 RIDWAAN KARIEM RIDWAAN KARIEM SHOT BY POLICE AND UNLAWFUL, DETENTION https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56177&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/worcest/ct07000.htm DR ORR Good afternoon Mr Kariem, welcome here - is this your mother with you? MR KARIEM Ja. DR ORR Welcome to you, thank you for coming here to be with your son today. Ridwaan you have indicated that you will take the affirmation. So can I ask you now to stand. RIDWAAN KARIEM Affirms to speak the truth DR ORR Thank you, I will now hand you over to Ms Mary Burton, who will help you tell your story. MS BURTON Good afternoon and thank you again for coming to be with us. Are you going to speak Afrikaans? MR KARIEM Afrikaans. MS BURTON So maybe you might want to put the earphones on. MR KARIEM Ja. MS BURTON Yes, we heard this morning about some of the events in the schools in Worcester in 1985 and we would like you to tell us more about it and about your involvement in the activities around the school boycotts and then about your experiences of being detained and assaulted. You were very young at the time about 14 is that right. MR KARIEM Yes, that is correct. MS BURTON You were at school at Esselen Park? MR KARIEM And the mass meeting took place on the Sunday and on the Monday some of our students decided that all three High Schools would be involved and on the next Tuesday the students from these three schools all gathered together. We were more or less 3,000 students and we then decided in the school hall that we would then march to the Songhe College - it was then situated in Gray Street. This was going to be a peaceful march. We left the school premises and we marched in body to the Songhe College. Along the way we passed a discotheque. Some of the students then left the march and started hammering on the doors and some of our students then went to speak to these students at the disco and these students then came back to the march. There was a police officer - I am not entirely sure of his name, but this officer told us that he would give us the opportunity to leave the premises - the college premises but we had already said previously that we wanted to involve all the students from the Songhe and the schools, we really wanted to involve the Songhe students - we wanted an answer from them. And then we started moving towards the classrooms at the back of the school - and the police started jumping over the fence and in the front they did the same. Now at the school there was a hostel and the police started moving through the gates - the hostel gates as well to try and pin us down on the school premises so we moved towards the classrooms. And then the school principal announced over the loud hailer that we - he wanted to have nothing to do with us, we had to solve our own problems and we had to leave the school. And then the police started shooting at us again and using tear gas and we started running again into Lionel Street and they then jumped into their cars and gave chase and this woman ran in the direction of her home and the police were following here and this one policeman, Tekkies van Rensburg, he and three other white policemen chased Ursula. We stopped because we wanted to find out what was happening - we saw how they came out of the house with Ursula and she was crying and they were dragging her out of the house. Whilst they were dragging her towards the car - well you must realise that our emotions were running so high when we saw Ursula in the hands of the policemen. The police shot at us again - they shot birdshot at us as well and then they put Ursula in the car. Then we all went to our homes via Lionel Street. So we boycotted school for about three weeks and when the police - one morning about 3:30 in the morning arrived at our home, they knocked on the door and my mother opened the door and a white man said to her that - he was Mr Niewoudt and he was looking for me and my mother then took him to my room and he asked me to identify myself and I did and he said I must get dressed to go with him. When I got to our doors I realised that there was a whole army of policemen present there. We lived on the third floor of the flats and the police were deployed on the steps there and there was - there were plenty of police vehicles from one corner of the flats to the next and there were lots of policemen with rifles and sjamboks etcetera. And they put me in the van and we then left there and picked up other students along the way at their homes and we then went to the CID offices in Hoogstraat. And when we arrived at the CID offices they told us they picked up eleven students and they put us all in one room and then four policemen entered the room, one was Dicky van Rensburg, Oupa van Loggerenberg, Buck Jones and the other one was Mr Symington. After and hour and a half they brought the other students back into the room where I was and they left us there. They then began to read the names again and took the students out one by one. Again, when my name was read I admitted to being Ridwaan Kariem. He then asked me what I expected. And then I said he has to decide what he has to do and then he said that he would let me go and he would see me at a later stage. I then walked out of the CID office and then I noted that all the students were waiting outside so we left together. I was told by the others that they were also assaulted in the various offices where they were interrogated and I then told them that we must return to our homes. And the next day when we returned to school we must warn the other students what would happen at the CID offices. We then returned to our homes and the next day we returned to school. The school boycotts continued and a week after my first arrests there were people at my home again who knocked at my door and looked for me. My mother again brought the police into my room and took me with them. This was on a Friday morning. I was locked up on the Friday morning without any interrogation and that afternoon I was called out, I was asked to give them my name, address, fingerprints and then I was returned to my cell. Then one morning there was a knock at the door again and it was the same police officers. My mother then asked them what exactly was happening since they were visiting me at home all the time and taking me away and then I simply come back without anything happening. They then said to my mother that they would charge me for public violence so my mother told me to go with them again which I did. They then told me to simply co-operate with them and I said I did not know what was going on. So they then told me it was simply my problem and then I was locked up again. On that Monday morning I appeared in court and then heard for the first time that the charge was public violence but I was not asked to plead. I was then released on bail of R500,00 returned to school again. Three weeks after the third arrest, again on a Friday morning on the 1st November I was collected at my home along with other students in the flats. In the charge office of the South African Police I saw that yet again a whole number of students were arrested and we were then placed in a garage where Mr van Rensburg, Mr van Loggerenberg, Mr Symington and one further detective, a Mr Herbert said that they would take photographs of us. They wrote our names on little boards which they hung around our necks they then called us out - they wrote our names on these placards and took photographs of us. They did a lot of writing that morning and then I was called after the photo session I asked Mr van Loggerenberg what all the notes that they take and then he told me that they want to know to which schools we go - what we do at school - how we are involved in the violence on the streets and then I said to him I simply could not tell them anything. MS BURTON [indistinct] being taken in the van - all of you were schoolchildren? MR KARIEM We then went down a very quiet road and soon we were at a prison which we entered. The police van turned so that it parked with the front of the vehicle to the gate and the back of the vehicle was drawn towards the entrance. We walked down a corridor and here we found officers in brown clothes which made it clear to us that we were in a prison. There were eleven of us from Worcester on that Friday. There were other people also who at that moment came into the Victor Verster Prison but the eleven of us from Worcester were taken to a particular section where we were locked up in single cells. We were in these cells for fourteen days in solitary confinement and then put in community cells after this span of time. We were in the community cells with adults and there were both so-called Coloured and black people in these community cells. After a week in the community cells Mr Symington and Mr Herbert came to the prison and called me. A prison warden Sergeant Lottering, took us to a room where they interrogated me, trying to determine what happened on the schools politically speaking and what happened outside with the school organisation. And I had told them that I simply did not know anything in this regard. After fourteen days some of the school children were released. Of those who were taken in with me on the Friday morning I was the only one who was retained in prison, there were four others from Breede River and some more from another school who were then released after fourteen days. Eventually it was only myself and the students from Breede River who were taken in on that particular Friday who were retained in prison. I was then told that the people who were locked up with gave them information that these people told the investigating officers, Mr Symington and Herbert that I had to tell them what happened since I knew more about the events. Another friend of mine, not a personal friend, but someone I met in prison, Mr Anwar Ismail from Cape Town who lives in Wynberg, I met Mr Ismail him and he comforted me and told me not to worry and that when he was out of prison he would contact my family in Worcester and he would bring my mother to Cape Town and he would work with her to have me released from prison. My mother then decided that she would not leave the matter there and she returned to Cape Town. Those people referred my mother to the media. On the 10th December I was brought to Worcester Court under the charge of public violence. The case was withdrawn against me on that day, the 10th December and I thought that I might return home. I then told my mother that I was glad what they were doing for me and she was then taken away again. In the food that was brought me I received a letter from my mother which comforted me and again said I should not worry and that she was working with attorneys from Cape Town to have me released. I was then returned to Victor Verster. Arriving at Victor Verster Prison I was shown a Cape Times by one of their comrades in which there was an article mentioning my detention with a photograph of my mother and Mr Ishmail. After a further fourteen days - this is after the 10th of December - on the 24th December, my name was called along with two other black comrades. We went to Colonel Witbooi who told us that there were people for us outside. He did not tell us that we were being released by the prison he just said that there were people waiting outside. They then asked me about these two black comrades where they come from and then I said they also live in Zwelethemba - we got into the car and whilst driving into Worcester we spoke about these matters - myself and these two others and along with my mother we found that they were also youths and that only the three of us had been locked up in Victor Verster until we were released. And Mr Abrahams the principal then told me that I could do the re-write with the other children since there was a re-examination and I would be allowed to write that. We then wrote all those exams in the church hall and I passed - I was then able to enter std 7. In 1986 roughly in June we had another school boycott in Worcester. I was involved again in the school boycotts. The principal of our school, Mr Abrahams then told me I caused problems at school and that he would refer me to the school committee. I then had to drive with Mr Abrahams in his Mercedes which he still owned at that time. He then drove with me and fought with me in the car - there were three of us in the car. We did not say anything ourselves but Mr Abrahams made us get back into his car which we did and we returned to the school. We did not talk along the way but he then said that we had had a warning and that we would be thrown out of the school. We then called other children of the school around and explained the situation to them and we all decided in the school that we would have another class boycott. That we would not continue with the normal classes and that we would involve the other schools and that we would explain to them what was going on in our school. MS BURTON MR KARIEM During 1985 I was arrested on a Tuesday morning MS BURTON [indistinct] we understand about 1985, just about 1986. MR KARIEM He repeated the question and I said I am not clever but I am a scholar I do go to school. And this Mr D once again kicked me in the ribs - he then told the other students to stop doing exercises - they had to stand up straight. He then came to me and hit me in my face, he was using his fist and then hit me in the ribs. He walked around me and kicked my feet out from under me and I remained lying on the floor. They then told the others to sit and they told me to sit up straight which I did. I then gave them my name and they took fingerprints and they locked me up in the court cells. Whilst I was in the court cells other students were also being locked up and then the police came and took us to the cells and took us to Worcester prison and then I was confused because I thought - they told me they were charging me but now they are not taking me to court but to a prison. That afternoon I went to Rhoodewal flats because there was a gathering of people who rented homes and I thought I had to go there and warn the people because the police might shoot at the people gathering there and there could be young children who would get hurt. So whilst I was at the flats we had our gathering on an open bit of land and the police then arrived once again and started using birdshot and tear gas against us. I was shot several times with this birdshot - I was shot near my nose - we then ran into a flat and someone then said I must stay there they would call my mother. Someone else also arrived they had been shot - he is now dead. MS BURTON [indistinct] thank you very much Mr Kariem. You have given us a very clear picture about how such a young man could get caught up in activities and you had several weeks of detention in Victor Verster prison as well as here in Worcester. It clearly made a very-very vivid impression on you and your family which is still visible today. I thank you for coming to tell your story, I have no questions Mr Chairperson. DR BORAINE Thank you, any other questions from any of Commissioners - Mr Potgieter. ADV POTGIETER Just one matter - you explained that in the beginning of 1986, you attempted to return to school - was that - when was that. MR KARIEM That was the beginning of 1987. ADV POTGIETER You then mentioned you did not succeed in re-entering the school. MR KARIEM I could not enter any of these schools. At the end of the final exams in 1986 we received forms for application for return to the school. I completed that form I was with a friend Erna Abrahams. And on that day we put our forms in together. ADV POTGIETER Did you pass your exams the previous year - you wanted to enter std 7? MR KARIEM No I was in std 7 in 1987 but I failed in 1986. I then applied for a - being allowed again to school so that I could std 7 again during that year. ADV POTGIETER No - no - do you think your detention and the whole history which you have sketched for us that this was the reason why you were not taken back to the schools. MR KARIEM ADV POTGIETER Do you think it was because of this? MR KARIEM The attitude of the school committee towards us as well as the principals was the reason why we could expect anything from them. I then in 1987 permanently left school after I was refused admittance at various schools. ADV POTGIETER Thank you. DR BORAINE Dr Orr. DR ORR MR KARIEM Okay. DR BORAINE Mr Kariem, we have listened to an unfolding story of persecution if you like of children and we have recently celebrated Youth Day where the country sought to give its respect to young people and the role that they have played in the past and the responsibilities which they have in the future. MR KARIEM I really would like to know from the Commission if a police officer who is suppose to serve the community surely this person cannot just see that people murder one another without getting involved. DR BORAINE This is not an easy question. So let me reply in English - would you mind if I reply in English. MR KARIEM No. DR BORAINE And we are committed to a new transforming process, then there is some hope for all of us, but I appreciate your concern, I wish that we had time to discuss all of it, but there are people who are sitting waiting to come and tell their stories and we have given you a lot of time. So I must now ask you to leave and thank you very much indeed - baie dankie. MR KARIEM Alles reg.