hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS 1996-06-25 WORCESTER 2 CT/07801 JACQUES MARTIN DE BRUIN DIRK DE BRUIN SHOT DEAD BY A CIVILIAN, DURING A MARCH https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56180&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/worcest/ct07801.htm DIRK DE BRUIN Duly sworn states MR DE BRUIN Yes he was shot and killed. ADV POTGIETER Yes, now perhaps you can start by telling us a little bit about yourself - where do you live? MR DE BRUIN I come from Robertson. ADV POTGIETER So you from Robertson. MR DE BRUIN Yes. ADV POTGIETER Is that where your family lives? MR DE BRUIN Yes. ADV POTGIETER And is this where this particular incident took place? MR DE BRUIN Yes. ADV POTGIETER When did it happen? MR DE BRUIN It was the 22nd of November 1990. ADV POTGIETER What were the circumstances in Robertson on that day that led to this incident? MR DE BRUIN Well on that day there was a rent boycott and most of the pupils and their friends from Robertson school were to hold a placard demonstration at the Municipal offices. On their way to the offices, on the corner of Barry Street at the Grand Hotel the police confronted them and asked them where they were going. They said they were going hold a placard demonstration at the Municipal offices. The police then ordered them to turn around and move back. The police then shot teargas into the crowd and the children starting running away in various directions, but most of them just carried on in the direction of the shops. Whilst they were running away this woman came out of her shop and she shot in the direction of the children and [intervention] ADV POTGIETER Mr De Bruin we realise this must be a very, very difficult thing for you to do to relive the pain of that day. We really understand you must be experiencing a lot of pain but please take your time, as we understand exactly how you feel. Are you feeling a little better? Right. MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER Is that the conversation you had with this person who shot your son. MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER Was there a court case after this incident? MR DE BRUIN No, to this day there has been no court case, there was just a sort of an investigation when my wife and I went to the Magistrate, Mr Lategan and he asked us why we wanted to make a fuss because our child was already dead and my wife said to him, sir do you think my child is a dog but he did not answer her. ADV POTGIETER When a person dies from unnatural circumstances the law says that there must be a judicial inquest should be held. Did you hear anything about an inquest in connection with the death of your son? MR DE BRUIN We just received a form which stated that he had been shot in the chest. That was all we received. ADV POTGIETER Can you still remember whether was this shortly after the incident or was it a while afterwards? MR DE BRUIN It was quite a while afterwards. ADV POTGIETER Did you ever make a statement to the police in connection with this incident? MR DE BRUIN I personally went to the detective, a Mr Uys who investigated the matter to report the matter as well as what she told me but up to now nothing has been done. ADV POTGIETER So there was no court case? MR DE BRUIN No, there were no steps were taken against the woman and she still runs that shop to this day. ADV POTGIETER How old was your son when he was shot? MR DE BRUIN He was 18 years old and in Std 7. ADV POTGIETER So he was at school? MR DE BRUIN Yes. ADV POTGIETER Was he involved in any political activities? MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER Could you ever succeed in finding an eyewitness or somebody who saw what happened and could tell you? MR DE BRUIN Yes definitely. At that stage there was a person who worked for a firm [indistinct] something like that, Ruben Jacobs and he worked across the road from where the incident took place. On that day when the children were moving down the roads, he specifically told his men to stand still and to leave they work because he was scared they would get hurt. At that stage, how can I put it, nobody was singing or chanting or toi-toiing and the placards were all still rolled up and he stood there watching how the police sent the children back and how this woman in the shop, she still told me that she had a little revolver in her drawer and that day she was wearing a dress with pockets and when the children moved down the road she took the revolver out and put it in one of her pockets. ADV POTGIETER Now according to those witnesses, the person who shot was outside in the street. MR DE BRUIN She came out to her doorway. (end of tape) (beginning of new tape - tape 3, Day 2 - does not blend in with the rest) MR DE BRUIN They were beating my son named Cosby. ... not satisfied that he would investigate the matter further but nothing has happened so far. ADV POTGIETER How long ago was this, how long have you been waiting for this? MR DE BRUIN Well since he was shot until today, 5 years. ADV POTGIETER Maybe I can just explain to you or perhaps before we do that, maybe I can ask you, what was the version given by the person who fired the shot - not the version she gave you, but the version she gave the police? This broken bottle business, what was that about? MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER Now the person who fired the shot, do you know her? MR DE BRUIN Yes I know her. ADV POTGIETER Did she know the deceased? MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER So you not sure whether she knew him when this incident took place? MR DE BRUIN No. ADV POTGIETER Was your son the only person shot on that day? MR DE BRUIN Yes he was the only child shot there. ADV POTGIETER So nobody else was shot? MR DE BRUIN No. ADV POTGIETER MR DE BRUIN I think yes it is actually all I can tell you. ADV POTGIETER Is there anything you would like to ask the Commission? MR DE BRUIN Excuse me. ADV POTGIETER The person who shot, the ... MR DE BRUIN Yes, Nolene Steyn. ADV POTGIETER Is she known to you? MR DE BRUIN Yes I know her. ADV POTGIETER Did she know the deceased as well? MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER MR DE BRUIN No Sir. ADV POTGIETER Was your son the only person shot at the scene? MR DE BRUIN The only boy or child? ADV POTGIETER Was there nobody else shot at the scene? MR DE BRUIN No, nobody else. ADV POTGIETER MR DE BRUIN Yes. ADV POTGIETER We will probably hear that submission after our lunch break. Is there anything else you would like to add or is that all? MR DE BRUIN That is actually all I have to say. ADV POTGIETER Are there any requests to the Commission? MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER What did they indicate, what evidence must you give them? MR DE BRUIN They want the police report and the post-mortem results. ADV POTGIETER And ... MR DE BRUIN ADV POTGIETER Do you want the Commission to investigate this for you? MR DE BRUIN I would appreciate it. ADV POTGIETER Thank you very much Mr De Bruin, I would just like to ask my colleague whether she has any questions. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN You may. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA It must be very difficult for both of you to deal with the memory of that particular day. Can you tell us what kind of memories you have of your son? MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA He was a wonderful child as well as a very good child from the perspective of the community. What were your hopes about him? MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN Yes. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Did you hear that or are you asking me to repeat? MR DE BRUIN Repeat. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN It was the ambulance man, Dirk de Koker who picked him up and put him in the ambulance and then took him to the hospital. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA And was this on the road outside the shop where he was picked up? MR DE BRUIN Yes about 15 to 20 metres away from the shop in the road, on the pavement. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Not on the pavement, in the road. MR DE BRUIN Yes it was in the road. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Just to reiterate the fact that people who saw what happened said that he was outside with the other marchers when he was shot. MR DE BRUIN Yes he was outside. How do you mean outside? MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA On the road he did not go ... I just want to emphasise that they were outside marching to make the demands for improvements on the conditions of the township. MR DE BRUIN Yes. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA This newspaper where it was stated that a broken bottle was found in the shop, what newspaper was it? MR DE BRUIN I think it was the Worcester Standard. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA So it was a local newspaper? MR DE BRUIN Yes, I still have the newspaper at home. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA So you still have the newspaper at home? MR DE BRUIN Yes and I did give it to the Commission. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA I know that we have the paper but can you just tell us for the record do you know who the Editor of that newspaper is? MR DE BRUIN No. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA I just wanted to find out. So it was only in the local newspaper, in other words it was just the Worcester local newspaper where this was reported? MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA Just those three, the one local newspaper and the two Afrikaans newspapers carried that report of the bottle? MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN Yes. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA In your statement to our investigators, Brenda, Mark and Chandre from our Investigating Unit, you stated that there was a policeman who came up to the woman who shot your late son and commended her for the action that she took and according to the information in the investigators report, this policeman said, good shot lady. MR DE BRUIN Yes, that was what the witness told the police. He heard that the policeman said, good show lady, good show and he gave his name as well to the woman who fired the shot. There were other witnesses who also saw that and heard that, how the policeman told the woman that - good show. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA MR DE BRUIN MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA ADV POTGIETER MRS DE BRUIN: (sworn states) MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA ME DE BRUIN I went home and I said to the little girl that we should go and look what the young people are doing because I was scared that something would happen that day. We then prepared ourselves to go and see what was happening. We were walking down the road and we saw some other people who were also on their way to see what the children were doing. When I got to the shop we heard the children shouting and screaming and then they came and told me that my son was shot. MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA ADV POTGIETER