hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-06 ZEERUST NTEBANG N SEFULARO JBO725 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56195&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/zeerust/zeeseful.htm CHAIRPERSON MRS SEFULARO Good morning, Sir. CHAIRPERSON Thank you for coming. MRS SEFULARO Thank you, Sir. CHAIRPERSON Dr Russel Ally is going to be assisting you as you tell your story, but before I hand you over to him, can I ask Professor Meiring to help you take the oath. If you can just stand please. PROF. MEIRING Sorry, maybe you should just stand again. Will you please say, declare that everything you will say, you will be saying will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God. NTEBANG SEFULARO (sworn states) PROF. MEIRING Thank you very much. DR ALLY Mrs Sefularo, good morning. MRS SEFULARO Good morning, Sir. DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO (in Xhosa) CHAIRPERSON MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY DR ALLY that correct? Is that what you remember ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Now you say that you later learnt that these were ANC people. How did you find out that information ? MRS SEFULARO I learnt that during the struggle, they denied that our children should go to school and those who were working at the government at that time, in Boputhatswana, could easily be killed. One of them was at school and the other one was a policeman in the Bop police. DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO I just learnt from my own observation that they were, that they were ANC members. DR ALLY Can you explain a little bit to us? How do you mean, your own observations? Did they, did they have ANC T-shirts on or what was it that convinced you that they were actually members of the ANC, or ANC supporters? DR ALLY My observation was based on the following : that when there were gatherings, there would, the ANC people would go to, house to house but they could not come to my house all the time. DR ALLY know anyone of that group that came to your house ? MRS SEFULARO I was not able to identify anyone of them because they just broke windows, came inside and assaulted me and my family. DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO I was not able to see as whether they come from our village or the surrounding areas. DR ALLY Now you say that you were, you were stabbed by one of these people who came into your house stabbed you? MRS SEFULARO Yes, on the shoulder, I was stabbed on the shoulder and the blade left inside the flesh. DR ALLY You say that you believe that one of the reasons why these people came to your house, one of the possible reasons was because you had a son who was in the police, who was part of the Boputhatswana police. Where was that son at, at ... (interrupted) MRS SEFULARO The other one was attending school whilst the schools were closed in our area. DR ALLY But one of your sons were still attending school, even though there was a boycott ? MRS SEFULARO He was attending school at Tsongotwane village. DR ALLY Okay. Now your who, who is the policeman, where was he at the time of this incident ? MRS SEFULARO He was Hammaskraal training college at that time. DR ALLY Now, before this incident, before this night of January, did you ever have any other conflicts or confrontations with people in your village ? MRS SEFULARO People were leaving the area to Zeerust and other areas and then we were left, we were the only ones who were left in that area at that time. DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO Yes, they fled to Zeerust. Only us who, who lost their children left in our area. DR ALLY Why did these people leave, go to Zeerust? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Now, I ask whether, before this incident your family had been targeted in any way. Was there any, did any people say that, that your family was in danger because of your son being in the police and your other son going to school? Were there any threats made against your family, or anything like that ? MRS SEFULARO Yes, we had threats because my child was attending school whilst the children in the village were boycotting school. DR ALLY And do you know any of the people who made these threats ? Are you able to identify any of these people ? MRS SEFULARO My child was telling me all those threats but I told her that she should go to school. I would take him very early in the morning to go to school every day. DR ALLY Now your son, this son who told you about these threats, would he be able to give names do you think, would he be able to identify the people ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Now this Mr Tiro, your neighbour who took you to the hospital, what did he do? Was he, is he a family member? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Now can you tell us about your daughter who was, who was killed, about the circumstances of her death ? How was she killed and where was she found ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Now did the police ever, ever investigate this incident ? Did they come and take statements from you ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO people who attacked me. DR ALLY And the police themselves, did they try and investigate this matter ? Do you have any knowledge of that ? Did they go around questioning people, seeing if there were witnesses , trying to find out what happened ? MRS SEFULARO Yes, the police did try to investigate in the village, then people were saying the houses were destroyed by the police. If the house is destroyed the DR ALLY And nothing happened ? Up until to-day have you heard anything more from the police? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Of the incident you say that there was this conflict between the ANC and you say everybody else who was not a member of the ANC was targeted by the ANC ? Can you just ... MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY Can you just tell us a little bit about why you say this? What makes you feel this or believe this ? MRS SEFULARO Can you please repeat your question, Sir. DR ALLY What makes you say this, you say that anybody who was not a member of the ANC, was targeted. Now, why do you make this statement, what was happening that makes you convinced that this is actually what was happening ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY You personally. Were you forced to join the ANC ? MRS SEFULARO Nobody forced me to join ANC. DR ALLY Where you a member of any other political party at the time ? MRS SEFULARO Yes. DR ALLY Which party ? MRS SEFULARO United Christian Democratic Party, Sir. DR ALLY MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY And people knew this, in your village ? MRS SEFULARO Yes, they knew very well. DR ALLY Were you in any way, were you just a member of this party or were you an official ? Did you have any position in this Christian Democratic Party, or just an ordinary member ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY And were you a member of this party for a long time ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY And your son who was at college, who was with the Boputhatswana police, was he also a member of this party ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY And now, can you tell us what the situation is like in your village where you live, are there still these old tensions and conflicts of the past or what is actually happening now ? MRS SEFULARO DR ALLY I would just appeal to you that maybe your son who was at school who you said was the one who told you about these threats being made against the family, that, if he could maybe assist us, if he could make a statement and maybe if he knew some names which we could follow up on, to try and, to, to try and get some picture of what was, of what was going on and, and perhaps of these thirty people who you mention who came into your house maybe the identities or names of one or two of them so, that, in this way hopefully some answers about what happened to your daughter, can be found. CHAIRPERSON Thank you Dr Ally, Professor Meiring and then Miss Joyce Seroke. PROF. MEIRING MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING Was she in school at that stage ? MRS SEFULARO Yes, she was schooling. PROF. MEIRING What standard was she in ? MRS SEFULARO She was doing standard eight. PROF. MEIRING MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING Thank you so much. I want to ask about yourself. You were in hospital for two weeks and then you could go home. Was it ever necessary to return to the hospital afterwards for treatment ? MRS SEFULARO I was going for treatment at the clinic and again at the special doctors. yes Sir. PROF. MEIRING Can you tell us about your problem ? MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING Thank you. You are working. What type of work do you do ? MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING Housewife ? Your husband, is he working ? MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING What does he do ? MRS SEFULARO PROF. MEIRING He comes during week-ends or during holiday times to be with the family ? MRS SEFULARO Always at month-end, he comes home. PROF. MEIRING Thank you, those are my questions. CHAIRPERSON Miss Seroke ? MISS SEROKE You said, in your village there were people within the ANC of the organ, and you were a member of the Christian Democratic Party, were there members of Christian Democratic Party in your village ? MRS SEFULARO Yes. MISS SEROKE Where there many? MRS SEFULARO Even if there were not many, but there were many. MISS SEROKE When this incident happened to you, did it happen to other people who were members of the Christian Democratic Party? MRS SEFULARO MISS SEROKE Can you give us an example ? MRS SEFULARO MISS SEROKE During the school boycotts in your area, were members of the Christian Democratic Party going to school or was your only child going to school. MRS SEFULARO They were all going to school. MISS SEROKE MRS SEFULARO MISS SEROKE Thank you. CHAIRPERSON Mrs Sefularo, before I come to thank you for coming to-day, can I just ask your impressions of, first of all why were there so many, why were the school boycotts going on in your area at that time? Why was there a school boycott in the area? MRS SEFULARO CHAIRPERSON And also could I just come to the question of the ANC. The ANC MRS SEFULARO CHAIRPERSON MRS SEFULARO CHAIRPERSON (clapping of hands)