hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS, SUBMISSIONS QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS 1997-05-06 ZEERUST MOSIMANEGAPE E SEROKE JB0744 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56197&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/zeerust/zeeserek.htm CHAIRPERSON MR SEROKE Good afternoon. CHAIRPERSON Mr Seroke, will you introduce the young man that is with you ? MR SEROKE CHAIRPERSON Is he a friend of yours ? MR SEROKE CHAIRPERSON PROF. MEIRING Mr Seroke stand and your hand in the air please and say, everything I say will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God. MOSIMANEGAPI SEROKE (Sworn states) PROF. MEIRING Thank you very much. You may sit down. CHAIRPERSON Miss Joyce Seroke is going to help you as you tell your statement. Miss Seroke ? MISS SEROKE Good morning, Sir. MR SEROKE MISS SEROKE Are you Soreko or Sereko ? MR SEREKO My name, my surname is Sereko. It has been spelt wrongly. They gave me my surname. MISS SEROKE I thought you were my brother. We thank you for coming and we welcome your friend, who accompanied you. You are coming to tell us of what has happened on the 14th of December 1989 in Lefurutse when you and Jopa Ndebele were assaulted by the police. We ask you to explain to us what was happening at that time. MR SEREKO After we said that some of our group wanted to fight with the Chief and his council, but we reprimanded them that these are old people. We will talk with them the following day. We stayed there patrolling the village. We patrolled the whole night. MISS SEROKE Thank you, Mr Sereko. I will ask you two or three questions. You are here to tell us about yourself and Jopa Ndebele who is your friend. I want to ask you, where is Jopa Ndebele now ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE You tell us that there were people who were attacking your village and people were disappearing. Who were, who were those people who were attacking your area to the point where you mobilised yourselves to patrol your community ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE When you say, those people were hired to come and attack your village, in your observation, were they working for the previous government or were they just ordinary people ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE When they were doing these things, what was happening in you community, which they disliked to the degree that they hired people to attack the village? MR SEREKO May you repeat your question ? MISS SEROKE When these people were doing those things and hiring people and MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE When you say they were enriching themselves, how, how did they enrich themselves, what did they do? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE Did you see people who were, whose parts were taken or was it just a rumour, or just an allegation that those things were happening ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE MR SEREKO prison or to be killed, but we were ANC underground, we were ANC members underground. That is the first organisation which in our village. We were given advices by African National Congress. MISS SEROKE In 1989, ANC was not there or was not in public. I agree with you when you say it was operating underground, but I want to understand that when you were patrolling the community, were you doing this with political objective from the ANC policy to protect the community ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE So the police came there and took you to the police station. Were they Boputhatswana police ? MR SEREKO Yes, they were Boputhatswana police who were stationed at Motzwete village. MISS SEROKE Who called these police to come to your village to arrest you ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE Is Dr Koch still available in this area ? MR SEREKO MRS SEROKE The lawyer who helped you, do you know his whereabouts ? Do you know his address ? MR SEREKO MISS SEROKE Sitting next to you and give him the name of the doctor and the lawyer and again the addresses of them both. Thank you Mr Sereko. CHAIRPERSON Dr Ally ! DR ALLY Mr Sereko, do you know of people who actually disappeared, because you speak about people disappearing from your village ? MR SEREKO DR ALLY And that the main reason that you started patrolling was to prevent any future disappearances. Is that correct ? MR SEREKO DR ALLY MR SEREKO Those people who were abducting our people, they are working together with a certain neighbour of ours. We know his house. He, that person is staying in our area and that person was dealing with those people from outside. DR ALLY And this shop where this person was allegedly found, where was this shop? In your village? MR SEREKO Yes, it was in our village. DR ALLY Now these people that you speak about, the neighbour, the people from the other village, the people at the shop, politically, did you know, have any idea of where they, where they stood politically? What their political views were, who they supported politically ? Is that, was that ever a factor ? MR SEREKO Those people were supporters of the Christian Democratic Party. DR ALLY MR SEREKO DR ALLY And you believe that these people were assisting in trying to abduct people? MR SEREKO Yes, they were helping in abducting the people in our village. DR ALLY But nobody was abducted from your village you said. There was an attempt but the person was found? MR SEREKO DR ALLY That - you patrolled your village in order to protect the community. Now how did you actually do this? You gave us one example of a car and you stopped the car and you said to the person must leave the spare tyre behind. What else did you do when you were patrolling to protect the community, what kinds of things did you do? MR SEREKO DR ALLY Did you ever have an incident where a car refused to stop or where the people in the car were angry with you for trying to stop them ? MR SEREKO No, Sir. DR ALLY No incidents where people refused to stop ? MR SEREKO No, Sir. DR ALLY MR SEREKO We were charged with overthrowing the government. We were not committing sabotage, but we patrolling our area because the police were not coming to protect the, our community. DR ALLY The charge that you wanted to overthrow the government, is that what the charge sheet said, or did it say something else? Did it say public violence perhaps, or, can you remember ? MR SEREKO It was about public violence. They were saying we were committing sabotage. DR ALLY Where there any, did they produce any witnesses ? Did any people come to court to testify against you ? MR SEREKO Yes, we had witnesses who testified for the state whom we were meeting with them in the roads during our patrols. DR ALLY What did these witnesses say in court ? Can you give us a - can you remember what kind of things were they saying ? MR SEREKO The witnesses were testifying about what appeared on the records by saying we were overthrowing the government. DR ALLY Did they accuse you of assault, of forcefully stopping people, forcing people to get out of motor cars? Anything like that ? MR SEREKO We were not found guilty during that court case. DR ALLY And did you yourself institute any action against the police who you say tortured you ? Did you lay a charge against them ? MR SEREKO DR ALLY Thank you. PROF. MEIRING Mr Sereko, just a few brief questions about your own personal circumstances. You were about twenty four years of age when you were arrested, is that correct? It was in 1989 when it happened. 1989. Twenty four years. MR SEREKO PROF. MEIRING Did you go to school ? MR SEREKO Yes, I did. PROF. MEIRING When did you leave the school ? MR SEREKO I left school in 1983. PROF. MEIRING And what standard did you achieve at that stage ? MR SEREKO Standard seven, Sir. PROF. MEIRING Seven. And did you work ? MR SEREKO I worked in the mines. PROF. MEIRING Thank you. And are you still working in the mines ? MR SEREKO PROF. MEIRING Were you able to work afterwards, or did you not find work after, after your torture. MR SEREKO I was employed at Mosalami Game Reserve, then I was dismissed because they said I am not wanted because I was the person who was trying to overthrow the government. PROF. MEIRING Are you married ? MR SEREKO PROF. MEIRING Do you have children that you have to care for ? MR SEREKO PROF. MEIRING How old are they ? MR SEREKO The first one was born in 1984, the second one was born in 1994. PROF. MEIRING The last question is just about your parents. Are you parents still living and where do they live ? MR SEREKO PROF. MEIRING MR SEREKO our village. PROF. MEIRING Thank you very much. That completes my questions. CHAIRPERSON MR SEREKO CHAIRPERSON Thank you Mr Sereko, for coming here to-day. Your story is a very complicated story, but it shows up again the brutality of the police and we will be hearing many stories of what the police did in this area, during to-day and to-morrow.