hrvtrans HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION HEARINGS PIETERMARITZBURG TIMOTHY SMITH https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56220&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/hrvtrans/hrvpmb/pmb7_11.htm TIMOTHY SMITH (Sworn, States) Now, I understand that you're going to give your evidence in English. What we've decided to do is to have the translators here translate your evidence from English into Zulu, and put that over the main speakers, so that the main body of the audience here, who are Zulu-speakers, will be able to hear your evidence in Zulu. So it would help the translators if you spoke fairly slowly so that they are able to follow the English and then translate it into Zulu. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF Okay, because we've only just decided to use this method, whereby we are putting the Zulu translation out into the public speakers, the technician has just asked me to give him a few minutes. He has to rig up another connector cable from here to the public speakers. So I'm afraid we're going to have to ask you to be patient for a few minutes. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF (Incomplete - through interpreter) ... March/April 1990, and then go on to that period itself. Thank you. --- I don't know whether you can hear me. Yes, I can hear you. I can hear you. I am a priest at the Roman Catholic Church. I was stationed at Elandskop. I was sent at Elandskop from 1983 up to March 1990, between that time. MACHINE SWITCHED OFF /Mr Magwaza, Now I am going to start speaking about the Seven Days War. On Sunday the 25th of March it was a miserable day and it was raining. It was also foggy. But many people went to Durban to attend the Inkatha meeting. We heard as well as saw buses which were proceeding towards Durban. We do not know what actually happened at Edendale or along the way when they were going to Durban or when they were coming back. Some said the Comrades were pelting the buses with stones, some alleged that Inkatha members were alighting off the buses and attacking people and provoking them. After the Sunday the tension in the valley rose dramatically. On the 26th, Monday, as well as 27th, Tuesday, I was attending a meeting in Durban, but I came back on that Tuesday and I heard that the people at Sweetwaters were attacking Xaluza and Ashdown. There were also gatherings of Inkatha members near Taylor's Halt and KwaShange. On the Tuesday of the 27th I passed David Ntombela's house and I was heading to town. I saw quite a number of vehicles which were parked outside his place, and it was pretty obvious to me that it was quite a big gathering. Early Wednesday morning, that was on the 28th, a certain vehicle which had a loud hailer was calling upon people, men as well as women, to the meeting which was taking place at Ntombela's place. They said that they should listen to a speaker who was coming from Ulundi. A person who was present at that particular meeting told me that when he arrived women were told that they should get into a certain room and take of their clothes, and turn them inside-out and put them back on again. When they came out of the house they saw a number of lorries, as well as vehicles from far and wide, with a number of men in them. These were unknown men. The registration plates were covered with a sack cloth so that there could be no identification. When the people asked Mr Ntombela as to where the lorries were coming from he told them that they were Mnyavus from the area of table mountain. Thereafter the warriors were sprinkled with "inthelezi," a medicine to protect them, and then they moved off to attack. I think it was at about 10 or 11 in the morning we heard that people had been attacked down the valley, for instance at Gezabuso, KwaShange and KwaMnyandu. We heard that people had run away from the areas. Presently I know that 35 or 40 people were killed at that time, and about 150 houses had been set alight and people fled down into the valley. Many witnesses saw David Ntombela amongst the attackers, together with Chief Shayabantu Zondi, that is the induna, Gavaza Khanyile, Lololombo, as well as others. Many also alleged that they saw the police assisting the impis. They were also transporting them in their car and giving them live ammunition. When we heard these reports I phoned the archbishop. He arrived on that afternoon to come and see what was going on. In the late afternoon of the 28th we had just begun to see the impis returning. Amongst those who were on foot they had brought quite a number of cattle. Others were carrying furniture, TV sets, as well as clothing. We heard that Mr Ntombela did not quite like it. He said they were supposed to have killed not to have stolen. On the 29th of March people were gathering at Ntombela's place for a meeting, but on that particular day they did not attack anyone. Some of the cattle which were brought on Wednesday were slaughtered and eaten, and the men said, "We eat the Comrades' things." The situation was quite tense. Almost everybody was having a traditional weapon or a gun. At times there would be false alarms, as I remember on Thursday we heard that the Comrades were attacking the Emaswazini area and all the man ran to that area, but it turned out to be false. That very same evening, that is the 29th, at about 9.45 in the evening, we were watching TV when a certain youth came to the mission. He looked very troubled. He said that houses were being burnt and there were shootings at Kokwane, close to the mission. I then called the Boston police and asked them to come and assist us. I went along with the young man to the place where there was an alleged attack. When we got there we saw some houses burning down, but we could not see the cars or the people. We decided to go to the police station to see as to why they weren't arriving. When we got there we discovered that they could not find the keys of their vehicles. I offered to take some of the police in my own car. We drove off to Kokwane. We saw four houses which were burning. We went slowly into each one with the policemen. In the first three houses we could not find anyone, alive or dead, but in the fourth house - know this house quite very well because my employee was staying there, and we got people. In the main building we discovered an old man, together with his grandchildren. They were hiding behind the cupboard. The old man took quite a long time to come out from behind the cupboard. When he came out he said they had finished his children up, and he led us to the other house, the back building. That's where we saw his daughter, Emmarentia. She was full of blood. She obviously looked dead. Lying underneath her was a child, a small child. I thought the child was also dead. Then I noticed that the child was breathing. I reached down and pulled him from beneath the mother and I realised that he was alive, and it was her four-year-old son. When his mother shot she apparently fell on top of the child and trapped the child under her. He must have been trapped for more than an hour or so. We went to the last hut in the yard. The house was also burning and we could see inside the house. We saw a body of a woman who had been shot and burnt, and she was underneath the bed at that time. I decided that it was better for me to take all the survivors to the mission. I took the old man together with his grandchildren, after searching for the place, and we went back to the mission. When I got to the mission, that is at the crossroad, in that darkness I could see a car, and three men were standing next to this car. I stopped my car and went out and I saw these men coming closer to me. It was Ntombela, as well as two white policemen. Ntombela was having his ammunition belt on, as well as two guns. He did not say anything to me. I explained to him as to where we were coming from and what we saw. I went into the mission with them. It only occurred to me afterwards that this had no explanation, it was strange, because when I got there Ntombela and the police were supposed to have gone past the houses that were being burned. Now I knew that we were the very first people to get to the area after the attackers. That is why we asked ourselves as to why he did not go past that area to see what was happening. Thereafter I thought that my future at Elandskop was at stake, and the people or the community members decided that I should leave the place, and the following week I went to Gauteng. After all this was said and done we tried to get some justice, but to no avail. We approached policemen, as well as attorneys, and we wrote to newspapers. I met /the Deputy- the Deputy Attorney-General and spoke to him, but we failed. After all these attempts it seemed to me that the ordinary people had been failed by the organs of the State, as well as the criminal justice system. Because as from 1987, when Angelica Mkhize was killed, up til today, all these people who were killed during the Seven Days War, I personally have found out that one who was arrested was convicted because of these acts. (Sic) Lastly I would like to extend an invitation to the Commission that it's not easy for us to explain in detail what happened during that time. I would like to invite you to come to the upper part of the valley to see what the place looks like. You should go past Eden and to the upper valley, KwaMnyandu, KwaShange, Gezabuso. Even today you can see the aftermath of the violence that took place in 1990. The houses, the shops were burnt down. The schools were also burnt down. You will also see the place where a number of people were staying, and they are no longer there at this present moment. Now I am saying these people might probably be here today. I want these people to say what the Commission can do for them. Father Smith, thank you very much for that very vivid and moving and articulate account of the period known as the Seven Day War, as well as the build-up to that period. If what you say is true then it is a terrible indictment on the South African Police, as well as on Mr David Ntombela and other senior figures in the IFP. I am going to ask briefly if my colleagues would like to ask you any questions, if you'd be happy to answer those. /I greet I greet you, Father. I just want to ask one question. Just at your conclusion you pointed out that you were not able to obtain some justice. You tried the police to no avail. You also tried some attorneys, but they could not help you. You also tried the press. This troubles me insofar as the press as well as the attorneys are concerned. How did these attempts fail? I can see the police matter. I did ... (inaudible) ... but what perturbs me is whether there are attorneys who were not able to co-operate with you, as well as the press. Could you please give us a brief explanation as to how you approached them and what was the outcome, and if you could please tell us the name of the Deputy Attorney-General that you approached it will help us to get the name so that we can investigate the matter further. --- I don't know whether I can get you. Are you asking as to how we failed to get the press to co-operate with us, as well as the attorneys? (Inaudible) ... who were colluding with the whole system, and we need to know if there were such lawyers they got, or if there was a press which was also colluding with the system. It does help us so that if indictments have to be made these people too have to be indicted. Thank you. --- Perhaps to start with the press. We tried - I tried to write an account of everything that happened, and some of that I sent to the press in order to have it published. The only newspaper that would publish the complete story that I have given you now was the Zulu newspaper, UmAfrica. The Natal Witness refused to publish it. Various other newspapers refused to publish that story, but UmAfrica published that story in Zulu, and a large number of people replied to that article expressing their opinion, some of them for, some against, but a large number of them who had been there in the Seven Day War, and were able to connect with events that I described. As far as the question of lawyers is concerned, we tried to hire lawyers in order to - oh, sorry. INTERPRETER You said The Natal Witness as well as other newspapers refused to publish the story about what happened in those areas, and you said UmAfrica published the story. Now, you can continue from there. --- With regard to the attorneys, we approached some attorneys to assist us with regard to these cases, but I must point out that it was difficult for the attorneys, especially those who were in the 'Maritzburg areas, because this was happening at Elandskop. Secondly it was a time of the state of emergency, and many of the things - or what we can do today we could not do during that time. The attorneys were not supposed to go into these areas and take statements from the victims, and the police had so much authority to act illegally. I do not blame the attorneys, I think they tried their level best, but under the circumstances it was difficult. I have got two questions. I want you to clarify this issue. Firstly you said David Ntombela was accompanied by a certain number of men. Do you perhaps know these men, these Inkatha members who always accompanied him to these attacks? --- I think you are speaking with regard to the 1987 incident. That is correct. --- When Mrs Mkhize was killed. The names of the people appear in the inquest report. They are common knowledge. The other one was Zondi, Ntombela, and the rest appear in the list of the inquest. My second question. Presently David Ntombela is occupying certain high positions in the Government, is that correct? --- That is quite correct. We know that there was a time where the perpetrators were not supposed to be holding high positions. We heard about McBride, as well as Dirk Coetzee. According to your own opinion what are you saying about David Ntombela, because he was a perpetrator, he was involved in the violence? How do you feel about him occupying a high position? --- That's why I am saying that the big question according to my own opinion is not a question of bringing together different political organisations and bring out peace and reconciliation. The main question is for us to bring back the rule of law, that he who kills and he who steals, he who rapes, he who commits certain criminal acts should be arrested, be brought before the law and account for their deeds. If that does not happen the people in Natal will not feel safe, they will not feel secure, because they know that the killers are still roaming the streets and they are still holding high positions. According to my opinion it's that the law should take its course. Presently we almost do not have the criminal justice system. More than 14 000 people were killed in the Natal region, but those who had been convicted are less than 300. It means we have absolutely no law in the Natal region. That is why I am saying the law should take its course, the people should come forward and account for their past deeds. If they want to be granted amnesty the Commission has the authority to do so, /but if but if they do not want to appear before the Commission the law should take its course, they should appear before the Courts and be convicted. Lastly it's with regard to your request that you wish that the Commission could visit the scene to see the aftermath of the violence. We do understand the ... (incomplete) ... further you have mentioned that the Inkatha had a certain camp near a farm. Which farm was this, and who were the leaders of that camp which was formed, and what was happening in that camp? --- It was a police camp. The Riot Squad. The Inkatha camps, according to my opinion, were not at the Elandskop area, but the police were staying at a certain farm which was quite close to us. I don't know where the farm is, but I could find out more about the farm. What were they doing at this camp? Were they being trained, or was it a base camp? --- I should think it was a base camp because it happened one day that when I was driving through the area I saw a white person who was standing next to the road. He was full of blood. I took him in my car, and as he was talking I could gather than he was a policeman from Johannesburg, and I do not know what happened, but apparently a certain sergeant took off his police clothes and released him to walk. He himself and another youth were in the bus and the Comrades got them in the bus and they assaulted them. That's how I got him in the street, and he asked me to take me to the base. That's when I discovered that there was this base next to the farm. Do you know the people who are controlling the base? --- No. Father, just a brief question. That night you met Thank you. My last question, Father Smith. This is quite a commendable job that you've done. Is there any support or any assistance or aid that you got from other leaders of the churches within that area? --- I don't know whether I can get you well. Do you - are you asking me if I need help? Father Smith, there is only questions that I would like to ask you. The first one, I want to get some clarification on a certain issue if you could have some insight. The Inkatha impis, when they went around announcing that the Comrades were attacking certain areas, /according according to your own opinion why were they doing this? Was it a certain strategy that was being implemented in order to achieve a certain goal? And the second one is that you have left us with a challenge that the community of Elandskop can ask some thing from the Commission. I was asking for your opinion as a person who was directly involved. Do you have any suggestions that you would like to put forward to the Commission? --- I do not have any first-hand information as to why there were false alarms, but what I can tell you is that on the 28th and the 29th, when the impi was coming back, there was this state of panic, I think because they were attacking further down the villages, and they thought that probably the Comrades were going to launch a counter attack, especially because people were always armed with traditional weapons, as well as guns. It was quite scary at that time. Secondly, because they were attacking and all the roads in the town were closed people were not able to commute to work or to go and see his or her relatives. With regard to the second question, I think this is a very difficult situation. I do not know how the people at Elandskop can be helped. I think they have been severely traumatised, because a number of them were not members of Inkatha on their free will, but they were forced and coerced to join the Inkatha. Another man said to me, "Reverend, we are all members of Inkatha because of Ntombela's insistence. If Ntombela could go away we would all reject Inkatha." Now you as the Commission, if you can initiate a process whereby you can call upon all the leaders who were forcing members of the community to join certain political groups, and force people to launch attacks on each other, it's when that the people will realise that there is justice. Right now they do not feel safe, they do not feel secured, they do not know who to run to for assistance. Just one last question, Father. Yesterday we had what would appear to me to be an unbelievable piece of wisdom from a witness who testified, Mr Enoch Zondi, and he said that to his mind of thinking it's wrong to call this event a war. What are your views on that? --- I thought nobody could put that better than he said that. That was beautifully put. It wasn't a war, this was an evasion. It was an invasion from one side to the other. What we have heard from the side of Gezabuso, KwaShange, KwaMnyandu, there was hardly any person able to resist, hardly any resistance of any kind. That's not a war. A war is when two sides fight more or less equally. So I think that was very well put. It's a misnomer to call it a war. It was a cleansing, a political cleansing. Father Smith, two witnesses yesterday mentioned the role of the South African Defence Force, and they said that had the Defence Force been properly deployed there during the Seven Day War they would easily have been able to prevent most of the conflict which took place - if they had been properly deployed, a sufficient number of vehicles and men. What are your views on that? You haven't mentioned the Defence Force in your testimony this morning. --- I agree with that completely. I am sure even a small force of the army could have prevented that whole attack. But even a small police force properly deployed to suggest - well, to strongly suggest that this was not a legal act, that it was not supported, would have done the trick. We never saw the army until the following Tuesday. I think about the 2nd or the 3rd of April was the first time we ever saw the army at Elandskop. Far too late. All of the death and the carnage was over. Yes, I agree. I think a small force of army, even a small force of police, could have stopped that if they'd wanted to. Finally, several other witnesses testifying before this Commission in other towns and cities have mentioned the role of Brigadier Buchner, and you indicated this morning that it was a key turning point when he arrived in November 1987. And you spoke of Buchner rallying the Inkatha leadership, particular Ntombela, Shayabantu Zondi and the other Chief Zondi. Are you just expressing an opinion here, or a view? Is this something that you are personally aware of, things that you've been told about? Can you express any opinion on that? --- I think there is quite a lot of evidence for that. There's evidence, for example, in what actually happened, that there was a resurgence of Inkatha during those months, and especially in January. There's evidence from people who seem to have leaked the information. For example the Natal Witness published in 1990 an account of Operation Doom, so they had information about it. Thirdly, there's information from Brigadier Buchner himself. His own words which have been published in written form express clearly that in that period, November/December/January, he turned the situation around. I think if you put all those things together it's very obvious that there was a rallying of the leadership. What actual plans were made, those we don't know, but we know a certain amount from different sources. sources. Yes, I think we certainly know from that period, and periods before and after that, that there certainly were meetings between senior policemen and members of Inkatha. For example, Captain Brian Mitchell has given evidence that there was a meeting which took place between himself, Major Terblanche and David Ntombela where the Trust Feeds massacre was planned. And that evidence has been given before this Commission. So, in those circumstances does it then come as a surprise that this sort of plan could have taken place? --- I can imagine there were many meetings, many meetings during that period, and I think many things were planned that we don't know about. The Attorney-General that you mentioned at the time, was that Mr Roberts? --- Yes. Father Smith, thank you again for speaking to us so frankly. --- Thank you. And for coming down from Soweto. Thank you very much. --- Thank you.