special Children's Hearings 1997-06-18 PIETERSBURG 3 https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56296&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/special/children/pburg.htm LIGHTING OF THE CANDLE CHAIRPERSON OPENING HYMN PROF DARGIE OPENING PRAYER CHAIRPERSON MR MPAHLA Thank you Comrade Chairperson. Ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends, students from different schools, the Chairperson of the TRC, the Honourable Desmond Tutu, distinguished guests and Reverend Bongani Finca, I greet you all on behalf of the East London Junior City Council, on behalf of all the Junior City Councillors of East London, on behalf of the Junior Town Clerk, Karen Oosthuizen and on behalf of our Junior Mayor Carla Nam. CHAIRPERSON Your worship Mr Junior Mayor. Thank you very much for your warm words of welcome and on behalf of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission I want to assure you that we take very much to heart the words that you quoted at the end of your address. I came here in April last year when we had the first public hearing of the Human Rights Violations Committee. It was the first, not just in this region of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, it was the very first ever in South Africa. That must make it particularly unique and now we come to the end of a series of public hearings and this will be the last in this series in this Province. There will be one or two others except for what are called Institutional Hearings such as the one that is happening in Cape Town at the present time involving the health sector. We will no longer have hearings where individuals come to testify about the human rights violations that they have suffered. We have by no means exhausted the stories in this country. We have heard some but even if we sat I think for ten or twenty years we would not hear all of the stories. Just yesterday at the hearing in Cape Town we heard harrowing accounts of what happened to people in detention but I think perhaps we have heard enough. We have heard enough for us to be able to draw the picture that Parliament expects us to draw, as complete a picture as possible of the gross human rights violations that have happened in the period 1960 to 1994. We want to salute young people for the incredible courage that they showed then for we are where we are today, very largely due to the contribution of young people and so I welcome you all very, very warmly to this special hearing. I welcome you very warmly in this gathering of the Commission today where we are going to listen to the youth. We welcome you all at this special public hearing of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission where the youth are going to give submissions about what they think happened and what their future is all about. May I just also express very warm thanks to the City Council for affording us these facilities and thank you to the translators and to the equipment people who ensure that we have all of this properly done. Thank you also to the staff of the TRC for the work that they have done. You may clap for that too. Bongani Finca? REV FINCA CHAIRPERSON ORDER OF PROCEEDINGS REV FINCA MR JACK Thank you Mr Chairman, the Archbishop and members of the penal. I greet you this morning. Perhaps as a TRC staff member I should be just be giving background information about the work that we have done, particularly focusing on the youth and children. Some of the things that we have discovered, or are in the process of discovering in our research, will be confirmed by the testimonies that will be presented here but at the same time our research confirms those testimonies. It has been indicated in the past week and this morning that the youth played a gallant role in the political transformation of this country but at the same time because of the role that they played, they bore the brunt of the repressive arm of the state in particular. They also suffered the informal repression that ensued during the political struggle. What I think we need to acknowledge at the same time is that the youth and children were not just victims of the violence, political violence that we are talking about, they were also participants, their various explanations of why children and youth in particular became involved in violence. The youth and children would like the fact acknowledged that they were not innocent victims, some of them are proud of the role that they played in the political transformation that has transpired so far. Significantly as the Truth Commission, although this has been apparent in our understanding of the political struggle in this country but in terms of the statements and the submissions that have been made to the Truth Commission and in our data base, we have found that there has been little direct abuse to children under the age of fourteen years. Those children have suffered what is called vicarious experiences where there is an indirect effect of violence where their siblings or their parents have been detained. The target group seems to be the age group between 15 years and older but under 30 years and since this is the target group of the political violence particularly from the State, it indicates the demographic profile of activists that were prominent in the struggle. In other words the people were likely to participate in the political struggles were those people between the ages of 15 and 30 years but of course people older than that were also involved but in public violence, particularly in marches and political protests, these were the kinds of people you would find. In our data base we have found that 59 percent of all torture cases that have been recorded in the TRC, the 59 percent of those victims are these people we call the youth, people between the ages of 15 and 30 although other people over 30 were also affected but the majority of cases that we have had so far indicate that the youth were targeted. The 49 percent of the 4494 killings that have been recorded in our data base also reflects that it is this particular age group, the age group between 15 and 40 years of age that has been targeted or that has suffered killings. CHAIRPERSON You are well educated. Thank you very much. REV FINCA Your Grace we call on Mxolisi Faku who will share the experience of youth in detention. Mxolisi Faku please? SUBMISSION OF THE EXPERIENCES OF YOUTH Youth in Detention MR FAKU CHAIRPERSON MR FAKU On the 3rd of August 1983 a curfew was declared in Mdantsane and the leadership of COSAS was arrested. We were not known at the time and were able to hide. We remained behind and continued with the struggle. Around the 7th of August, Mungaletu students boycotted their classes in support of their parents as we could not leave people being shot like that and not do anything about it. This is how the conflict between us and the police started. Eventually we were arrested as well. I would like to enlighten you on the forms of torture that we experienced even in our young age. I think the youngest amongst us was 10 or 11 years of age and his surname was Majeke. He was in hospital with a bullet in his body however after being discharged from the hospital he was taken back into prison. They would take our genitals and squeeze them against drawers hoping to get information because they were convinced that we worked together with people who were in exile and perceived us as a threat. They thought that we wanted to take over the country. After a month I was released from detention and I went back to school with intentions of continuing my education and enlightening the youth. I was terribly antagonized, seen as poison in the school even by the parents. CHAIRPERSON We thank you very much. We have listened to your submission and the requests you have put forward. I thank you very much. REV FINCA Professor Mbulelo Mazamane will share with us experiences of youth in exile. Youth in Exile PROF MZAMANE Your Grace Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Chairperson, Commissioner B.B. Finca, Honourable panelists, the Mayor, TRC Members, Junior Mayor and Councillors, students, parents, comrades, colleagues and friends here gathered, there seems to be quite an elastic definition of youth in the country and I find myself encompassed in that definition. Over the weekend as we were looking at the National Youth Commission we did extend the cutoff age to 35 but the truth is that even the 50 year olds can be so encompassed as well. There were various other traumatic experiences Your Grace, the experience and the trauma of escape. I recall receiving a child of 8 years old whom we called Queenie, Queen of the exiles, a child who had escaped from Soweto sleeping by day and walking by night and walking through scary, unknown territory in what is today the North West, in a bid to cross the borders into Botswana. Just the shear trauma of escape into the unknown for an 8 year old. The trauma of arrival and being received in detention because you needed first to report yourselves to the authorities and the authorities did not run dormitories you see, so the only place where they could accommodate you whilst they checked your credentials was in prison. Just the uncertainty Mr Chairman, of imagining what you had tried to escape from and what you found yourself in. Detention as first port of call further traumatizing a child like Queenie and the living conditions to which you were then released. One of the leaders of the Soweto uprising of June 16th, Siad Tsimashinini had no less than three kidnap attempts whilst living in Gaberone in Botswana until it was felt necessary that he should leave Botswana to go and live where it was not going to be possible to have him kidnapped. Having to go and immerse himself in the strange surrounding of a country known as Liberia and suffering and ending up a nervous wreck Mr Chairman, and dying in that process. Many of these having to be warned repeatedly never to travel ever by themselves and not in company. CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA Youth Living in Homes of Political Activists MRS GCINA CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA Thank you your Grace. We call on the Democratic Party Youth Delegation, Mr Pierre Reynolds and Mr Bongani Bangela. SUBMISSIONS BY YOUTH IN POLITICAL PARTIES Democratic Party MR REYNOLDS CHAIRPERSON Bongani? MR REYNOLDS I saw him a moment ago. CHAIRPERSON We want to thank you very much. Your future is really bright. Pan African Congress MR MBINDA CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA Is the choir present? Will you please tell us when the choir is here as his Grace wants the choir here. OTHER YOUTH SUBMISSIONS Clarendon Girls High School MISS OOSTHUIZEN How can we build a culture of respect for human rights? This is a difficult area and I must be frank here, generally White youth are politically ignorant. They have never had to fight for their rights and they have been moulded by the input of their parents and the Nationalist Government. All schools need to introduce some form of political forum or system whereby pupils can be educated in a mature and open manner in which they can ask questions and receive answers and not feel threatened either by the teacher or adult or by one another. There are so many new areas that need to be spoken about across all cultures but our parents were taught not to talk about politics and in many cases they have passed that reluctance or lack of interest onto us but we, particularly us Whites have to change all of that. We have to make it our business to educate ourselves politically and not to apathetically continue to generalize in the ways that our parents did. What we have to try to do is follow the thinking of Aticus Finch in particular Mocking Bird. He stated that in order to understand someone, you need to walk around in their shoes. We can all really try to do that. It is time now to put our words into actions. Do we want reconciliation, do we really, really want it and if we do we have to work hard, try hard, tussle with our problems, not give up and make sacrifices where necessary. It is not going to be one-way traffic. There are going to be cultural collisions but with people like our President and Archbishop Tutu to inspire us and they really are inspirational examples to us all, how can we possibly go wrong. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA We hear your Grace, East London High is ready to give us a song. CHAIRPERSON Wonderful. REV FINCA Xolile, could you introduce your colleague to us? Kusile Comprehensive School MR NOMANA CHAIRPERSON Thank you. MR NOMANA The Honourable Chairperson of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Co-Commissioners of the TRC, Distinguished Guests, Ladies and Gentlemen, allow me to extend my heartfelt greetings on behalf of the pupils and staff of Kusile Comprehensive School. I must say that we feel greatly honoured as a school for being selected to make a submission to this historic gathering. As a starting point I think we need to focus on the concept of reconciliation within the context of what has taken place in our country during decades of White majority domination. Having focused on that we shall then be able to say exactly how this sad past has impacted on our relationships. It is a well known fact that successive White Governments institutionalized racial discrimination in virtually all spheres of our lives namely, in education, sports, religion, political institutions, public amenities etc. This resulted in polarization of national grooves especially between the indigenous African people and the people of European decent. A very substantial percentage of latter group approved of the racial policies of successive majority Governments by way of returning them to power through the ballot box. Whenever the African people were tempted to effect a change of Government through non-violent brutality, individuals who were seen as a threat to the political establishment were singled out and they were either maimed or permanently removed from society. The assassination of the former student of Teflock University in 1972, Abraham Tero comes to mind. They maiming and the subsequent permanent removal of Sipiwe Ntinkulu from society, the death of Steve Biko in detention and the cold-blooded murder of Mdtanda Ndodo. The list is endless. Reconciliation as envisaged in terms of the promotion of the National Unity and Reconciliation Act seeks to bring together the perpetrators of these horrific crimes we mentioned, with the victims or families. Having disclosed fully all their acts of barbarism the perpetrators then became eligible for amnesty. In other words their prosecution is not automatic. I think it was no incident of history when the United Nations organization declared Arbour Day to their crime against humanity and as such perpetrators of that crime must stand trial in the same way as perpetrators of Nazism stood trial at the end of World War 2. The countless massacres that were organized by successive racist regimes should be regarded as the genocide of a defenseless people similar to the genocide of the Jews in Nazi Germany. At this junction one needs to remind the audience that South Africa is a circular State but it is no secret that the TRC is loaded with religious idealism. This religious idealism deliberately escapes to address the real issues that could help to form a very firm basis for a reconciled nation. A child will never refrain from doing wrong things until he is told and subsequently punished. To me the road that is followed by the TRC especially the Amnesty Clause of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act can never bring about a reconciled nation. To this end the TRC is just peppering over the cracks. In conclusion I think a culture of respect for human rights can only emanate from what society is capable of doing to those who perpetrated Gross Human Rights Violations over the years. This is the only opportunity to set a precedent about these culprits so that never again would anybody think of violating human rights. ... 2 of our Constitution which deals with the Bill of Rights should perhaps we integrated into our curriculum. Finally a permanent Human Rights Commission should act as a watchdog against any violation of human rights. Thank you all. CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA ... is leading the delegation? Pendogazi could you introduce the gentleman with whom you are appearing? ______________: My colleague on my left hand side is Tembela Julie and on my right is Gavin Hammond. CHAIRPERSON Order please. ______________: Good morning to my Dignitaries, Honourable Guests, Ladies and Gentlemen and boys and girls. First of all I would like to thank the Truth and Reconciliation Commission for giving us this opportunity as young people to show how we feel about the past, present and future of our country. Lastly, I pray to God to give our President Mr Nelson Mandela the power and all the help he needs to fulfil the needs of the people of South Africa and carry on a successful and honourable job. Thank you. East London High School We remember that those students who died on June 16th in Soweto were fighting for us. Brothers, sisters let us now rise up and learn. These students died because they wanted this generation not to have difficulties learning a language such as Afrikaans in all subjects. These pupils were having a rough time at school as we know that non-Whites were lacking opportunities, a non-White was shut out. We were not allowed to have high positions and the Whites used to call us all kinds of names. The non-Whites suffered in this country but I say now is the time that a non-White shows what he can do. Students must learn, parents must work hard. How long will the White man be a leader and not a non-White. We have a non-White prisoner, Nelson Mandela but we still do not have enough non-White leaders. We have the power, we have strength to make things happen. We see something that we did not see when a White President was in charge because since a non-White President has taken control over this country, we have not heard that someone has died because he is White but when the White Presidents were in control, many non-Whites were dying. _________________: Mr Chairman and Distinguished Guests ... (interrupted) CHAIRPERSON Order please. CHAIRPERSON I nearly said viva. Thank you very much. God bless you. REV FINCA Your Grace, we ask for Linda Mgobata from Alphendale Senior School. Alphendale Senior School MISS MGOBATA My colleague here is Vulu Ndombela. The Honourable Chairperson of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Co-Commissioners of the TRC and Distinguished Guests I greet you all on behalf of the Alphendale Secondary School. June 16th, 1997 marked the 21st anniversary of the events that fundamentally changed the political scenery in South Africa. April 1994 and our newly adopted constitution are achievements that this country can take pride in. This was never have been possible without the events of June 1976. June 1976 also highlights the involvement of a very important sector of the South African population of then, the youth. In challenging an unjust and unpopular system. June 1976 also shows clearly the role the South African youth played in issues of the national issues. It is with this background in mind that we welcome the opportunity to share our views and national reconciliation with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, because the youth of today has as much a meaningful role to play in issues of national interest as they did twenty one years ago. The Government, through the Promotion of National Unity and Rehabilitation Act and specifically through the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is tasked with ensuring that the above-mentioned never happens again. The TRC is one vehicle that can be used in achieving national reconciliation. National reconciliation cannot be achieved overnight. It is a process that will take time. It also cannot be done by the TRC alone but it needs the involvement of all South Africans. To achieve this we need to know and appreciate our past. We need to know where we come from and learn from this. We should not cling to this past but instead use it to shape our future. The process of national reconciliation requires of us to be responsible. We need to take responsibility for the past. The past and present leadership of our country must be seen to be at the forefront of this process. Greetings to the Chairperson and to the Co-Commissioners. What I have is a message to the youth of South Africa as a whole. As the youth of South Africa we have to realise that we have a critical role to play in this process. Our responsibility is to ensure that we are part of the Reconciliation process. We need always be aware of this process so that our actions, when dealing with other people that other people are informed by this. We need to talk about it with peers to find out what it means to different people. Finally, we need to realise that this process should lead to building a common national South African identity which we desperately need. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON That was a very nice duet. Thank you very much. REV FINCA We call on the Provincial Youth Commission, Mr T. Maxilesi. The Provincial Youth Commission MR MAXILESI Familiar headlines in the newspapers read "youth stoned women to death", "five youths stabbed to death by rival gangs", "youth convicted for rape", "youth in crisis in South Africa", youth jailed for thirty years for attempted murder and robbery", "Kwa Zulu Natal political violence - thirty youths died", festival ends in chaos -youths stone top artists", "mother abandons three children and a cat". Why this situation? Let me take this opportunity greet the panelists, Archbishop, the youth, Ladies and Gentlemen. The confrontation between the Government and those residing in the Province has led to the detention of many young people who had to spend long spells in jails either under the notorious Section 29 or without being convicted by the courts of law. The physical torture by the security police and the general of the normal lives of many young characterizes the lives of Black youths in the Province. Week-ends which should have been spent on recreational and other youth related activities, have been spent in cemeteries as victims of police. A feature that for many decades became a norm in South Africa as a whole. In the face of a mounting state repression and institutionalised oppression, many families left the country to reside in other countries, either to live or to study or join the liberation movements where they were hosted by other countries. The breakdown of family units and the links with extended families due to the exodus affected in a traumatic way the lives of many youth. Many young people and members of their families have died in exile either in active duty for the liberation movements, natural causes and other causes. Some have been inflicted with incurable diseases some of whom can be attributed to the social and economic hardships they experienced in foreign countries. The racial and cultural divides characteristic of the South Africa of the past damaged a sense of patriotism among the majority of South African youth. The methods used by the state of suppressed popular resistance and the methods of struggle used by the youth were basically violent methods which contributed to the divide and alienation of the youth population according to their racial and ethnic identities. The bullets from the police and the soldiers of the then South African Government were unleashed by the youthful in the service of the apartheid Government of the day and the retaliatory and at times offensive stone throwing and petrol bombing in Black communities was an act engineered and implemented by the youth. The methods of confrontation damaged the minds of the youth of our country from both sides of the racial and ethnic divide. The country as a whole has a responsibility of killing violence as an entrenched means of solving problems. Battles and operations during the height of the South African conflict have cost the country many young lives. The mobility and the movement of working youth from the rural areas to the migrant labour system have contributed in displacing and exposing millions of youth to the harsh realities of institutionlised and systematic oppression and exploitation of the Black person and the accompanying racial arrogance of the bosses at the factory floor. These experiences have left vivid memories that will continue to shape the psychological make-up of generations of youth who are products of the South African past. South Africa is a land of diversity culturally and religiously. Over the years, cultural expression has been utilised to indoctrinate and dominate young minds. South Africans in the past including generations of youth expressed themselves in cultural terms in a manner that corresponded with their political and/or religious convictions. The state assisted such cultural relations by entrenching a submissive culture through the syllabus and curriculum and further promoted an image of a culture that coincided with a racial system elevating one racial group over the other. Good young artists with great potential have failed to realise their dreams excelling in their different artistic and sporting codes due to a system that was extremely brutal to the mind which limited and regulated realisation of goals by the youth of this country. Of all the institutions and Government systems in South Africa the criminal justice system enjoys the least popularity amongst the large sections of our population which is the South African youth. Firstly because of a poor understanding of the system itself and the perception shared by other sections of the society that they system has an orientation of the past, a past that has been defended even if it meant manipulating the criminal justice system. Individuals and groups from the youth population have suffered from a biased functional exercise of the system. Problems of gender relations which manifest themselves in criminal behaviour such as rape and child sexual abuse have received much attention lately precisely because of a growing perception that rapists and criminals are protected by law. REV FINCA Mr Maxilesi, we are giving each submission limited time so perhaps you could try and summarise and then take us through the alternatives on page 6. MR MAXILESI REV FINCA Thank you. MR MAXILESI The alternative course aimed at enabling youth to enjoy their rights will depend on the extent to which the country works for a peaceful South Africa. The legacy of racism is a national concern which the country still experiences. Outstanding racial barriers must be removed to allow youth of various groups to cooperate and join hands in building a country and a future that is undeniably theirs. The National Youth Policy presently evolved by the National Youth Commission and the Provincial Youth Commission in close partnership with youth organisations must provide a framework that will give clear guidance on sustainable development of the youth. Youth focus will have to deviate from confrontation and conflict, adjusting and adapting to the new national ethic of peace and democracy, is a challenge the youth must meet with great pride and patriotism. I thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA Your Grace we call on COSAS, Mr Mashalaba and Mr Mpahla? CHAIRPERSON COSAS MR MASHALABA The Congress of South African Students was formed on the 30th May 1979 as the first non racial student movement. In the same year COSAS adopted the Freedom Charter as the guiding document in the broader South African struggle. This was necessary because as a student we believed that before we are students we are members of the society and therefore we have a role in changing the society. As the students organisation we aimed to build a spirit of friendship between students and to build a spirit of trust between parents, teachers and students and fight for a non racial, free, compulsory and dynamic education. In the process of building the organisation, COSAS realised the centrality of students and the role they should play in the transformation of the education system. We also saw it important to listen to students from various schools, communities and regions in dealing with education problems. We felt that we should forward the problems as seen by or student members to the education department through our principals. We formulated the above problems into the following demands: Formation of democratically elected Parents Teachers Students Associations. (FTSA) End of corporal punishment in all schools. End of sexual harassment by teachers. Building of libraries and laboratories in our schools. Provision of better sporting facilities in our schools. Removal of age restrictions. After a process of prioritising and consolidation of our demands with all students we communicated with them with our principals who always promised to forward them to the Department of Education. After months of waiting we realised that the responses we wanted were not forthcoming. After months of investigation we realised that the principals did not submit our demands to the Department of Education. In those areas where they were submitted the department ignored them. We had to think critically of the ways and means to force the department to respond to our demands. In the former Ciskei area all our structures were banned in 1983 together with other political organisations before it was banned nationally. COSAS was banned in 1983 in the former Ciskei. Our members were forced to operate under the students councils such as Zwesco, Mdasco and so on. Whilst these problems were prevailing students continued to support their demands and swelled the ranks of COSAS and students councils where COSAS was banned. As the authentic students organisation in the country, students continued to charge us with a heavy mantle of fighting and representing their demands. We reported to students the unwillingness of the department to meet our demands. Parents were sent to negotiate with the department but no one was prepared to talk to them. We did not list everything but however maybe after the Commission the panel can come and ask me what happened. We were left with one option, that of boycotting classes in an attempt to put pressure on the Department and the Government. The Government remained intransigent and responded by sending police and soldiers to our schools. It was in these struggles where we saw the brutality of the regime. Hundreds of our students were detained and tortured and others severely beaten. You can see the scars of sjamboks on their faces. Even today others are semi and permanently disabled because of the bullet wounds they suffered. In other cases some of our fellow students were brutally killed. Here Mr Chairman I think of Andile Matshoba, a COSAS leader who was shot in Mdantsane by the police. Mr Chairman I remember about ten of our members who were drowned by the Ciskei police in the Buffalo River in Zwelitsha. This unjust education system resulted in many of our fellow students leaving school to join the work force and others leaving the country to join the liberation movement in exile. The culture of learning and teaching was reduced to non-existence by the regime. Most of our teachers were transferred to other areas and those students who were arrested during boycotts were refused admission in most South African schools. In places like Ciskei they were detained and deported to their hometowns, some of them are SATU secretaries. The above scenario Mr Chairperson, reveals one thing and that is as young people in this country we never had peace. The absence of educational and restrictional facilities in our schools and communities affected our academic achievements and growth development as young people. We jumped some stages of childhood into adulthood and in the process we lost our identities. We left school without the necessary qualifications as demanded by the employment market. On the other hand the violence that we have witnessed in our country is responsible for the loss of tenants of control in our country today. The young people are the victims of that unjust system. They continue to be victims because there is no visible change. The demands we fought for have not been addressed even today. There is still no conducive learning environment. Entry requirements to institutions of higher learning are still problematic for young people from historical disadvantaged communities. It is our belief even in this time that our cause for which we fought was a noble one. We wanted to fight a system of education in an unjust society. We had to fight the society because it was not possible to have a better system of education in an unjust society. We are the victims of a struggle against education and the National Democratic Revolution in general. The atrocities we suffered cannot be over emphasised. Since our struggles were not aimed to fulfil our dreams as individuals but as South African citizens. Mr Chairperson, the TRC was opened to people as individuals. It is therefore our understanding that the individual victims have approached the TRC to present their cases. We promise to assist in bringing forward those individuals who have not made statements to the TRC. We wish to recommend the following to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission: An extension of the TRC deadline for the statement taking, to allow communities to participate in this process. Organise a youth seminar to listen to the needs of the young people in the country. The TRC work with the present Department of Education and find ways of resolving the anomalies in our education system. In honour of those of us who died, monuments, parks and sporting facilities must be established in our communities. For those students who lost their parents: a special grant be arranged to meet all their academic needs. Community Colleges be developed to help those young people in the street acquire skills. Involve our parents in the running of our schools. Improve the sporting facilities in our schools and communities. Identify all those who were responsible for the killing of our fellow students, particularly in the Ciskei area. One more, thank you very much for the opportunity you afforded us to present our case. I would like to further conclude by saying, us as activists in these struggles are responsible for some of the things we experienced. We were not passive bystanders but rather acted with the naiveness of youth and had no way of knowing how the Government of the day would retaliate. Should this TRC Council suggest ways for us to assist them in our above recommendations, we will consider them. Thank you Mr Chairperson, Ladies and Gentlemen. CHAIRPERSON Thank you for the suggestions that you make and for reducing the number of sweets. REV FINCA Inter-Church Youth _____________ : Thank you Mr Chairperson. Next to me is Reverend Mkungo who is a Management Committee member of the Eastern Cape Provincial Council of Churches, Mr Albert Wittles who is a staff member in the same organisation. Some people might question the youngness of the youth here. Thank you for the opportunity to speak here today. Most of our activities were unraveled and harassment of our leadership began, tortures, detentions and there was this thing, detention without trial as well as the state of emergency. We kept on pleading with the wider church youth to join us in the struggle because the problem was whether you were saved and we were saying to them, if the state of emergency is declared we will not choose somebody who is saved or not. If you were under the stress of teargas you would be affected. Part of the harassment I must say came from the side of some of the churches who influenced our young people not to be part of the mass democratic movement but instead they were to be saved. In times when we were organising rallies and workshops and the likes, they would organise camps and conferences of their own which would run simultaneously so that the whole process could be disrupted. They were funded very well but we had nothing in hand. P.A. systems and the likes were bought and we were told to be "Happy Clappies" and forget about the struggle. That we has the Inter-Church Youth or the church within the youth have in one way or the other killed people or at least involved in the process of killings. That we informed on others who ended up being tortured severely and who died in the process. We were part of this as the church youth. One needs to emphsise that this was justifiable for the cause of the liberation of ourselves. We want to say we believe that 70 to 80 percent of the young people who died during the period of the period of the struggle, most of them were church going youth or were young people who believed in Christ or who were baptised in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as it were. There people were all disappointed by the church. We are here to say that we take full responsibility for any human rights violations committed by our members. To families who perhaps had no idea that ICY members were involved we are unjustifiably apologising to you all. Coming forward here with a submission as the sinned against group is an explanation of what type of people we are as Black people, we are notoriously forgiving and up against what the missionaries have been saying in statements that are written down in books, implied that we are a non religious community. I want to say that we are more religious than many a nation. It is because we are notoriously religious that we are notoriously forgiving, so said Dr Willy Mazamisa. In conclusion I want to say again that we are more than just religious, we are a peace loving people and if the Bible says blessed are the peacemakers, we might have had so many blessings if and only if these people will come forward. The people we want to make peace with are not coming to tell us what they have done so that at least we can forgive them. Please people, we need to be blessed by God for the peace but they are deciding to run away. They are not just running away with themselves but they are running away with our long overdue blessings. We want our blessing please, people we urge you to bring back our blessings. I thank you Mr Chairman. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much Ministers of religion, young ministers of religion. REV FINCA We call on Buffalo Flats Youth Forum, Mr Joseph Kreeling. Buffalo Flats Youth Forum MR KREELING CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much for the brevity of your input which is impressive. Thank you. REV FINCA Your Grace, the last but one submission is Potsdam. Potsdam can we have a very brief one like the Buffalo Flats? Potsdam Youth Organisation Secondly, we also request that the Commission as the youth in 1992 because of the circumstances in which we were under the ANC, we marched to a hall which belonged to us but was filled with police under Brigadier Ghozo. He was totally against the youth especially the youth under the ANC. Under Section 43 we were not allowed to gather in meetings. We fought against Section 43 and we won and told the police that we wanted the hall because it belonged to the community so that the youth can entertain themselves in it. On top of that we were harassed by the police. CHAIRPERSON REV FINCA CHAIRPERSON Please, order. Thank you. MR MAJOJO We are thankfully to the African National Congress for producing what was then called "Radio Freedom" to show us the way, to tell us more and more about our situation and how to move forward to our future. We are thankful to our parents for being so tolerant with us despite the tensions that were there between us as the youth, as they young people and our parents because they feared for our future, they feared for our education but they supported whatever we were doing. We are thankful today that they have been with us right through this dark period. We want to appeal to our young people not to allow anybody to feel pity for them, not to allow anybody to feel mercy for them because we are not here to ask for pity, we are not here to ask for mercy we are here to build our future. Our appeal to our young people is for them to equip themselves with knowledge. We believe that knowledge is the power, knowledge is the key and knowledge is the conqueror therefore let us all go out and equip ourselves with knowledge through education, through training, through whatever method that will make it worth living in this world of ours. I thank you very much. CHAIRPERSON Thank you very much to all of those who have honoured us and enriched us by the submissions that they have made. We will have noted the specific recommendations and suggestions which we will want to consider very seriously as a Commission as we enter into the period of beginning to draft the report that we will be giving to the President in March of next year. Thank you very much for taking all that trouble. Thank you, all of you who come especially from the different schools. Thank you for the music that was provided by some of you, we are enormously grateful to you for that. Thank you to the Imbongi for enlivening the proceedings. Thank you Professor David and all your beautiful traditional music. Thank you to my fellow panelists and the staff of the TRC. We are enormously grateful to those providing security, the police and thank you to the translators and the person providing us with our equipment. Have I left our anybody? Is there anybody who feels left out? I thought, and thank you to the parents who have made the children possible and now I think I should ask you to give a very warm hand to all of those people including yourselves. MUSIC BY PROFESSOR DARGIE PROF DARGIE I start off with a song which goes all the way back to the terrible smallpox epidemic of 1770 and then a mixture of some village songs very briefly and a song of thanksgiving to end. CHAIRPERSON Order please. CLOSING PRAYER BY REVEREND MATEBESE Hearing adjourns with the singing of the National Anthem.