special Armed Forces Hearings 1997-10-08 Cape Town 2 PANEL DISCUSSION BETWEEN GEN. G MEIRING OF SANDF AND TRC PANEL https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56316&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/special/forces/sandfpan.htm PANEL DISCUSSION BETWEEN GEN. G MEIRING OF SANDF AND TRC PANEL Dr Boraine: Gen. Meiring, on behalf of the Commission I would like to express our appreciation to you. You will appreciate more than most that the terms of reference and the period covered in relation to the Act which governs the work of the Commission is at present up to the 5th December, 1993 but I think it would have been totally amiss if we did not have your contribution today. Particularly as it describes to a cynical world, a cynical South Africa, sometimes, in the midst of so many problems that a genuine miracle occurred in our country. You are right of course, that without vision, commitment, hard work, patience and tolerance, none of that miracle would have been possible, it was a combination of forces which came together and created a new spirit in the SANDF which was markedly different if I may say so, from that in he past. We thank you also for reminding all of us that our approach is not one of revenge but one of seeking the truth in order that we can become the truly reconciled nation. Therefore the questions will be very limited and we will clearly have a much fuller presentation of what we can call the old SADF in a minute or two. But there may well be questions, either of clarification, there may be comments from my colleagues. I have one particular question that I would like to reserve that and rather defer to my colleagues before I proceed with that, so without any further ado let me at least find out if there are any questions before you leave. Mr Potgieter: Gen. Meiring, you make the point on the first page of your submission that you have established a nodal point for the purpose of facilitating access to information in the possession (??) of the SANDF. Now, just as a matter of record, from your point of view, are there any restrictions placed on this exercise of gaining access to information and secondly from your perspective, is this working in practice, the nodal point and the efforts of the Commission to gain information that might be needed for our purposes? Mr Potgieter: Just to be more specific General, in regard to an issue that enjoys our attention, the former Civil Co-operation Bureau (CCB). From your perspective should there be any difficulty for the Commission in gaining access to records relating to that organisation. Gen. Meiring: Sir, if records existed there would be no problem. Mr Potgieter: General, you have mentioned the lawful route, you have mentioned the Archives Act, you have mentioned decisions that were taken obviously being regarded as lawful by the Defence Force but are there also indications that there was destruction of documentation and records unlawfully done in order to suppress information and if so are there any details about that? Ms Wildschutt: General in your submission you make reference to the fact that we were engaged in a war, in fact we were engaged in quite a protracted war and you also took us through the various descriptions of that war. I am sure many people in our country will agree that it seemed as though our country was at war with itself and that many of the victims and casualties of that war, whichever way one describes it, are in fact South African citizens. I would like to direct my question at the comment you made also in the submission about soldiering not being a selfish profession in that soldiering also, looking at the needs and dealing with the needs of people and you give examples of such types of soldiering elsewhere. Has the SANDF given the thought to the issue of redress and restitution, particularly with regard to the most, almost excellent, beyond comparison services you have, particularly in the SAMS, the SA Medical Service and I am particularly referring to resources for rehabilitation for example and perhaps to the fact that most of our people need emotional rehabilitation as well and that in your organisation it perhaps is the most grouping of psychological and social work services in your organisation if you were to look across the board in terms of medical service in our country. So really I am asking the question about the issue of redress in the fact that there are many resources within your organisation. Gen. Meiring: The resources in the organisation exist basically for the mission and the purpose for which the organisation was brought into being but if you ask the question do we put the resources at the disposal of the people of South Africa if and when necessary, we do that, yes, because at many times where we are deployed in an internal peace-keeping role which we are at the moment doing to assist the SAPS, particularly in cases like the East Rand and Kwa-Zulu-Natal and also on the Border for protection. We deliver services to the community at those points in time. We have many times put at the disposal on very short notice, all our resources in times of crises and times when it is needed. It is difficult to think of any other organisation who could have done that because we existed for a primary role, we needed the resources to fulfil that role adequately when so requested to. Therefore we are also immediately available to put those disposals where needed, at the behest of saving lives and property and things like that, but we have not particular ability just to give disposals away if I can call it that. We batted for and we are responsible through Parliament for every cent that we have available. We do not budget for eventualities. We use what we have in time when an eventuality appears like the saving of lives or trying to save lives and subsequently assisting the people of the Republic of Tanzania in the capsizing of the boat on Lake Victoria. By coming to the aid of drought in terms of bringing water to the people in the Northern Province, building bridges when storms devastated them in Kwa-Zulu, Natal - I can go on ad nauseum but we use our collateral to put at the disposal of the people of the Republic and the spirit in which it is done is very much appreciated and I wish I could take you along just to see the thankfulness of the people when we do these acts of mercy that I can call. Dr Boraine: Gen. Meiring, thank you for your presentation and thank you also for your readiness and willingness to openly respond to our questions. In concluding this part of the presentation could I take up your offer of making available to us additional information which may arise out of some of the questions from all of my colleagues and you will obviously delegate accordingly etc. But in particular you mention that the SANDF has a list of documents which have been destroyed, we have been very fortunate in getting that from the police side, if you could make that available through our normal contacts and liaison that would help us in our work and as I have indicated we are bound by the Act to make that available in our final report to the President so that would be of enormous help to us. I think it will be an ongoing saga about the whole question of certain documents which would have thrown light on particular incidences etc. but of course we are going to have another presentation and we will reserve any further questions and comments about that until in fairness we have heard that presentation. On behalf of the Commission I would like to express our sincere appreciation to you for your presence, for your presentation for your readiness to answer questions and in thanking you I hope that the enormous task that you personally have and those who work with you at all levels, will successfully continue the start that you have made so that this country which has seen so much conflict internal conflict, division and even civil war will find itself a very much united, very reconciled country which can consolidate democracy and deepen the spirit of reconciliation for which we all work. Thank you very much.