special Prison Hearings 1997-07-21 THE FORT - JOHNNESBURG 1 MR MURTHI NAIDOO/MR INDRES NAIDOO https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56364&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/special/prison/naidoo.htm DR BORAINE NAIDOO FAMILY (sworn states) DR BORAINE MR LEWIN Well Indres is closest but I understand that Indres you will be leading the evidence, is that right and that you know the form that these hearings take. MR I NAIDOO My grandfather already at the latter part of the last century was involved in the struggle. He was the founding member of the Transvaal Union Congress in fact, the first President of the Transvaal Union Congress. He was a very close colleague and collaborator with Mahatma Ghandi and the two of them organised a number of campaigns in the latter part of last century and the early part of this century. My grandfather has got a proud record of going to prison fourteen times. In fact on the fourteenth time they threatened to expel him, kick him out of South Africa but in spite of that he went back to prison. My grandmother who has also been to prison on a number of occasions, gave birth while in prison to her last child. My father, at a very young age went over to Mahatma Ghandi to India and studied under Mahatma Ghandi and - After fourteen years, fifteen years in fact, he returned to South Africa to continue the struggle in South Africa. My father has been to prison in 1936 during the historical defiance passive resistance. He went to jail again in 1946 during the passive resistance and he went to jail again in 1952 during the defiance campaign. During the defiance campaign he was chief volunteer officer for the defiance campaign whilst Nelson Mandela was commander of the defiance campaign. My father passed away in 1952 but he also won Posthumous World Peace Award which was given to him by the World Peace Council. I was arrested in 1963, on the morning of the 17th of April 1963. Myself and my comrades Reggie Vandia and Sherish Nanabai were arrested red-handed by the that time, Lieutenant Swanepoel and twenty to thirty heavily armed security warders. Swanepoel shouted immediately that we should stop and put up our hands which we all three did but Swanepoel shot, he shot me on my left shoulder and the bullet came out between my spine. The first remark Swanepoel made was, the Coollie is very lucky, I aimed for his heart, and immediately thereafter all the policemen that were there got stuck into me with the butts of the rifles and they started hitting me. Reggie Vandia who was my commander protested against me being beaten and they said oh Coollie you are a ... and that was the end of him. They brought him down and they beat him on the spot. Thereafter I went back to my other comrades and I assumed that I walked back in the same way as the others walked before me. Nevertheless we were then sentenced to ten years the three of us. Reggie Vandia, Sherish Nanabai and I were sentenced to ten years imprisonment. They then locked all three of us up in separate cells in the isolated section of Leeuwkop Prison and they gave us exercises twice a day for half an hour. They gave you exercises in such a fashion that you hated exercises. They made you run at full strength, full speed, barefoot, short pants, short sleeved shirt, they made you run along a corridor with a concrete floor and you ran from one end to the other. On the one end was a warder by the name of Magalies whose real name is Liebenberg, another warder by the name of Kumalo would stand on the other side and as we run past them they would hit us on the knees and our ankles. Each time we ran past them they would say faster, faster. As a result we dreaded this form of exercise. I must tell you that when we at De Doorns for the first time I saw a warder who was human, he actually asked us chaps would you like some tea? We thought he was playing the fool with us as up to this time no warder called us chaps, we were Coollies, we were Kaffirs, we were Boesman, we were terrorists to mention a few. Here a commanding officer called us chaps and offered us tea and he did give us hot tea and hot bread to eat. On returning to the prison that evening, he reported me to Lieutenant Naude saying that I refused to work and I disobeyed a lawful command. I was then charged for disobeying a lawful command and the final result was I was sentenced to four strokes. They tie you onto a ... your hands on both sides and your feet down there, you are stark naked, they put a padding on your back and a padding on your thigh exposing your buttock only. The first shot that landed, landed right in the middle of my buttock, it cut my buttock down the middle, I felt the pain but I kept my mouth shut and held on. The warder then applied iodine which was even worse because the iodine burnt you. The second shot fortunately for me the cane landed on my buttock, the other half landed on the canvass which took quite a bit of the sting away. The third one fortunately again landed entirely on the cushion but the fourth one, by this time the warder was very furious with himself, he said this has never happened to him before. The fifth one landed right on the first cut, cutting me even deeper and they again applied iodine. I see my brother is showing me the watch. They loosened me and I felt that if I put my clothing on there I would faint immediately so I just grabbed my clothing and walked to my cell with my clothing. It was only when I got to my cell that I fainted. With the atrocities, it was a daily occurrence on the Island, we were beaten with rubber hoses, we were beaten with batons, we were beaten with anything that they had with them. Their attitude was that this is Robben Island and no prisoners leave Robben Island alive and that was very, very clear to us. Unfortunately, we were the first three Coollies to be on the Island and the warders would say where are the Coollies. It was a bad time. Unfortunately when more Coollies joined us once again they said where are those Coollies ... and this went on continuously. Nevertheless we never took all this torture, all this harassment without a fight. We went on hunger strike, we went on boycotts. Every time a visitor whether he was a Fascist, whether he was a journalist, whoever it was we raised our complaints and in this way we hoped that our conditions on Robben Island would be exposed to the world. I was released in 1973 with my two other comrades and all of us were put under house arrest. Being under house arrest meant that I could no longer speak to Shanthie, I could not long speak to Murthie and I could no longer speak to Sherish and Reggie my comrades that were with me in jail. In 1976 the Soweto uprising took place and the ANC pulled me out of the country in 1977. I spent the next fifteen years in exile in Mozambique. I was there when in 1980 the SADF killed thirteen of our comrades in Matola. I was there when the South African Air Force bombed Maputo and killed one ANC person and four Mozambican civilians. I was there when Ruth Furst was blown up in 1982. In 1986 we were asked to leave Mozambique for our own safety. The President of Mozabique, Comrade Chisano said we are not kicking you out of Mozambique but for our sakes he would like us to leave Mozambique and we left. Months and months later I got word from South Africa or in fact from the Weekly Mail that a certain warder or a certain prisoner, a certain policeman has confessed that he placed the bomb that injured Albie Sacks. He said that bomb was not meant for Albie, that bomb was actually meant for Indres as he knew Indres was in Maputo for one week and on his way to Berlin, it was meant for him but unfortunately Albie got injured. They had some other method for Albie. While in exile we lived in constant fear of attacks in Maputo, even in East Berlin where we were quite secure, there were a number of threats on our lives. I think I have said enough, I would like my brothers and sisters to make their contribution. DR BORAINE MR P NAIDOO ... (not audible) DR BORAINE Okay, thank you. MISS S NAIDOO On the fifth day I was allowed to sleep for a few hours and when I got up I felt like there was no floor anymore, it was the most horrible feeling. I was interrogated on this dream. They then took me to Pretoria Central and left me there in solitary and I was held in similar conditions as I was in The Fort. Six months later they took me to give evidence in the trial twenty two, Joyce Sekukane and Winnie Mandela where I refused to give evidence. I was then sentenced to two months imprisonment. MR LEWIN MISS S NAIDOO MR LEWIN Thanks very much. Murthie? MR M NAIDOO I was first detained in 1965 on my way to visit Indres on Robben Island. I was arrested at the airport in Cape Town and was held overnight in a dark filthy cell in Roeland Street Prison. The next day I was taken to Swartkop Aerodrome in Pretoria in a light military aircraft. It was a journey I will never forget to this day because I vomited from Cape Town to Pretoria, I was violently sick the entire flight from airsickness. I was driven to Pretoria Central Prison, I was stripped naked and searched and was given back my clothes except for my belt, shoelaces and watch. They said the belt would prevent me from committing suicide in prison but I had no intention of committing suicide. I was held in solitary confinement for a fortnight in a small cell of about three metres by two metres. I slept on a grass mat with two blankets, it was bitterly cold. One small bucket in the corner was my bathroom, another bucket contained water. I was fed mielie rice and water only and I was usually allowed to exercise for half an hour a day. I must confess that solitary confinement is the worst kind of torture that can be inflicted on any human being. No amount of physical torture can equal that of solitary confinement. I had absolutely no contact with any of the other prisoners who were almost entirely common-law prisoners but I could continually hear the beating and sjamboking of other prisoners. At some time during my detention we used to get the Rand Daily Mail and I followed very closely the Harold Strachan Trial and exactly what he had said in his newspaper article, of the beating and sjamboking of prisoners is what I had heard continually every day. On my release I was listed as a communist. Subsequently we were taken to Modder Bee prison where I was held with other detainees from around the country in communal cells until the 10th of August when we were released. MR LEWIN Thanks very much Murthie. Prema? I think we might have to ask you to be slightly briefer that Indres because I know your story goes on a long time, thank you. MR P NAIDOO I was arrested for the first time in my house in Lenasia at 5a.m. on the 27th of November 1981. I was in perfect health physically and mentally. The security police did not tell me where they were taking me all they said was, pack your bag and I was taken to John Vorster Square for questioning. At lunch time the bag and handcuffs were removed and I was given soup and bread. Immediately after lunch the handcuffs were put back onto my wrist and ankle and the questioning and punching started again. After about two hours the cuffs were removed and Warrant Officer Smith made me squat and do pushup exercises on the floor. This routine followed the next day. That afternoon late a policeman by the name of Prins came into the room and without saying anything, my wrist was still handcuffed to my ankle, he pushed me down onto the floor and put his foot on the cuffs which dug into my ankle and with a little piece of stick which had a key on it, he beat me onto the soles of my feet. This continued for some time. The next morning I was taken to Vereeniging Police Station. At Vereeniging Police Station I was interrogated continually for six days and six nights in teams. The people who were involved in the interrogation was Warrant Officer Smith, Warrant Officer Booysens, Warrant Officer van der Merwe, Lieutenant Venter and somebody by the name of Schalkie who continued to interrogate me. I was then taken back to my cell and I felt ashamed of myself that I began to tell the police something which I had no right to tell them. I implicated other comrades who took part in this escape. I contemplated suicide, not because I was hurt or anything but because I felt I had betrayed the cause, the cause which I believed in. MR LEWIN Take some water Prema. MR P NAIDOO The beatings that had taken place between common-law prisoners and common-law prisoners made me sick. I believe that they put myself and comrade Sherish amongst common-law prisoners because they felt that they would mess us up but fortunately the common-law prisoners respected us and they never touched us. The infighting amongst common-law prisoners and what warders were doing to prisoners was terrible. I think we as a family are not the only family who suffered this kind of abuse and indignation as there are many comrades who are here today with families and friends who walked with us side by side and they too had suffered similar. We would like the Truth Commission to investigate the human rights abuses against our family and other people who spent their lives in prison. MR LEWIN MR P NAIDOO There was an obvious glaring similarity between the way the police treated us and the prison authorities as they treated us equally as badly. MR LEWIN So when you arrived at a prison as a detainee before you were sentenced, was the treatment the same, did you see a collusion between the police and prison ...? (tape blank) MR I NAIDOO In fact there was no difference whatsoever, you first landed up in the hands of the security police who did what they wanted to do. In our case we were detained at The Fort, fortunately for us while we were detained at The Fort we were under medical treatment. I had a bullet in my hand, I had a couple of ribs broken. Reggie Vandia had his right hand broken and a couple of ribs broken. Sherish Nanabai had lots of injuries and our lawyers insisted that we remain in hospital here at The Fort but conditions were the same. Prema has highlighted the question of the common-law prisoners. On Robben Island we found a similar situation where the bulk of the political prisoners were mixed with common-law prisoners. These common-law prisoners were hardened common-law prisoners who were serving one life, two life, three life, four life sentences and their only ambition in life was to escape from the prison, knowing they would come back again. Their intention was to get us down to the same level as the common-law prisoners. As Prema says many of them were very sympathetic, some of them in fact joined the various movements and their whole tactic of trying to dehumanize us through the common-law prisoners completely backfired. MR LEWIN Yes I see ... MR I NAIDOO MR LEWIN MR P NAIDOO MR LEWIN Can I therefore try and take us forward without denigrating anything of the past. On the basis of your experience and your contact both with the police and/or the security police and the prisons officials, what sort of recommendations to you think we should make particularly about the regulation of prisons? MR P NAIDOO As I said I served my entire sentence with common-law prisoners and in my experience in prison at that time there is no such thing as rehabilitation. I think prisoners were abused from morning till night. People were swearing from morning till night and I believe that it should be built into our prison system about rehabilitation because I believe everybody has some kind of good in them and if people have committed a crime, a criminal offence they need to be rehabilitated. We need look at ways and means in which to make them better people when they come out of prison. MR LEWIN Thank you. MR I NAIDOO MR LEWIN MR P NAIDOO MR LEWIN Thank you. Mr Chair if I could just ask one final question before passing back to you. MR P NAIDOO MR LEWIN And the comment about the heights? ...(tape blank) MR P NAIDOO They said to my wife that they were going to rename John Vorster Square, they said they call it Tumour Heights but when they finished with me they will call it Prema Heights. MR LEWIN Thank you. DR BORAINE Mrs Seroke? MRS SEROKE I notice in your statement you say that the whole family was reunited after twenty eight years and then you say when Ama, your mum had her second and fatal heart attack, was this so overwhelming for her, this reunion? Can you explain that for us because I find that very moving that a mother who has had her entire family separated from her should now die when they are together? ... MR I NAIDOO DR BORAINE Thank you to my panel and thank you to you all, good day. HEARING ADJOURNS