special Prison Hearings 1997-07-21 THE FORT - JOHNNESBURG 1 MRS ILSE WILSON / MRS RUTH RICE https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/hearing.php?id=56373&t=&tab=hearings https://sabctrc.saha.org.za/originals/special/prison/wilson.htm DR BORAINE I now call Mrs Ilse Wilson to the witness stand please. I welcome you very warmly to the hearings on prison and prison reform, you have very close and intimate knowledge which we would like to share with you and for you to share with us. Can I take it that both of you will be speaking or just the one? You both are? Will you take the oath or the affirmation? MRS WILSON Affirmation. DR BORAINE Will you please stand and I think you can take it together. MRS ILSE WILSON (sworn states) MRS RUTH RICE (sworn states) DR BORAINE MRS SEROKE On the 15th of November 1963 he was again detained but suddenly he decided that he was going to go into hiding and I would like to quote his reasons for that. He said that he was absenting himself from the remainder of the trial and was going into hiding in South Africa in order to continue opposing the policy of Apartheid for as long as he could. He had not taken this step lightly but feared that unless the whole oppressive system was changed radically and rapidly, disaster must fall. Could you tell us, after this trial what happened to him that necessitated him being incarcerated in this prison? MRS WILSON He continued to practice as an advocate and became a senior advocate of Queens Counsel and did both his political work and his legal work. He was one of the lawyers in the treason trial which went on for four years when the people were acquitted, the accused were acquitted. He was also the lawyer in the Rivonia Trial which I think was very difficult for him because he was defending his comrades, they were not just clients. A lot of people would say that through the defence which he led, the lives of those people were saved as death sentences were being asked for. Soon after the end of that trial he was arrested, he knew that he would be arrested and was put on trial as you reported. He felt, again as you reported that he could more useful if he went underground, he in fact went underground in January 1965 and remained underground for the best part of that year and was arrested in November again after which he was accused under the Sabotage Act. They threw the book at him that time. MRS SEROKE Thank you, going through your statement, you give very painful experiences that you went through when he was in prison, would you care to share those with us? MRS WILSON These two comrades really did support Braam in that and for which we were very grateful but they too were humiliated with Braam. They were made for instance to keep sweeping the courtyard in silence, the three of them. It had a rough floor and there was a coal burning boiler nearby that spewed instant ashes onto this floor and these three men had to in total silence, sweep continuously. These were the kinds of ways in which people were just deliberately and maliciously humiliated. I think that there was a general sense that Braam particularly was targeted because he as the Afrikaner was the real traitor to the people. MRS SEROKE MRS WILSON MRS SEROKE When you brother Paul died, was he able to come to his funeral? MRS WILSON MRS SEROKE MRS WILSON Finally on the 15th of November nine days after the fall, Braam again saw Doctor Brand and an X-ray was at last done. The radiographer identified a fracture of the femur. On the 16th of November Braam was seen by a specialist who confirmed the fracture and advised hospitalization. On the 19th of November, thirteen days after the fall and probable fracture and four days after the fracture was diagnosed, Braam was eventually admitted to the H.F. Verwoerd Hospital. MRS SEROKE How long did Braam remain in the hospital for this treatment? MRS WILSON MRS SEROKE What happened when he died? MRS WILSON On the 8th of May when he died, we let them know at once and within half an hour prison authorities were there with a list of conditions. The conditions included that if we wanted to have a funeral it had to be in Bloemfontein, it had to be within a week and if there was a cremation the ashes would be retained by the prison authorities and that is indeed what happened. There was a cremation in Bloemfontein within a week but we never were given the ashes. MRS SEROKE So even in death Braam was a threat to the security police? MRS WILSON Yes a threat. MRS SEROKE MRS WILSON MRS SEROKE So that was only after twenty years that you knew what happened to the ashes? MRS WILSON Yes. MRS SEROKE DR BORAINE Just before you leave, could I just find out if there are any other questions, Hugh? Tom? MR MANTHATA I have no questions except to say I wonder how many books are written about Braam, such that generation after generation will read and be proud of Braam Fischer. DR BORAINE Thank you, Mr Lewin? MR LEWIN If I could ask just two questions. I know a re-burial is impossible but is there any request that you as a family have for us to try and facilitate or assist with, what do you do, how do you re-scatter ashes because it is a request that comes from numbers of families? MRS WILSON MR LEWIN Is there a plaque already which notes actually where he was buried? MRS WILSON Apparently according to the newspaper, there is in the Bloemfontein garden of remembrance just a little brass plaque that gives his name and his date of birth and date of death. MR LEWIN What about the actual record, the medical record that you have, fairly clearly is there anything that you want us to do, in your statement you talk about us subpoenaing the doctors. MRS WILSON DR BORAINE