HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 26-06-1996 NAME: MPUMELELO B. NOBADULA

MR BORAINE: The next witness is Mpumelelo Benjamin Nobadula, I am getting tired obviously, but I will keep going. Nobadula. Mr Nobadula, welcome to the hearings of the Commission. Thank you for waiting. I am very pleased that we are able to include you today because I am quite sure that you have other responsibilities tomorrow.

You have come to tell us about your brother who died in detention, Mzukisi. We will listen very carefully to your story. One of my colleagues will be guiding you in a moment, I have read the statement that you have given to us earlier and it is a very distressing story.

But we will leave you to tell that and to share with us your own pain and grief. Before you do so, I must ask you to please stand for the taking of the oath.

MPUMELELO BENJAMIN NOBADULA: (sworn states)

MR BORAINE: Thank you very much, indeed. I'll ask my colleague and fellow Commissioner, Dr Ramashala to lead you please.

MS RAMASHALA: I will speak in English. You are here to tell the story about the death of your brother. You tell us about the death of your brother. Would you go back to 1976 to give us the context of his death and the events that led up to his death?

MR NOBADULA: I'd like to take off the earphones. In 1977 we were a group of students, I don't know if I should

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continue continuously?

MS RAMASHALA: Yes.

MR NOBADULA: We were a group of students in 1977 and we were watching and guarding the police who used to raid our township. We called ourselves as if we (indistinct) and then we changed the name because some of our comrades were being arrested and then we changed our name to Amaxwabani.

As we were guarding the township and we were watching the people who pretended to be politicians, yet they were criminals, so we tried to protect the neighbours, the community against such people. We also advised the people to avoid travelling during the night, because the police used to fire shots as they liked.

During that period there was a rally at St Stevens or shall I call it a meeting. I think I can start by saying I was from one of the sessions it was 3 am. I saw the police nearby and I thought they have come to arrest me or they have come for something else.

And then I went to hide myself in one of the passages. They left and then I felt that I cannot go to my place, so I went to hide somewhere. Then there was this meeting at St Stevens. We were a group of students as I said before, we could have been 30.

We were putting tires and wires on the road, especially in the passage so as to close any exit and entrance through the streets. We were guarding the door. We went to the door, next to the door and we had rocks in our hands. There were some police in the vicinity.

When they saw us, they chased us. We jumped over the fence, but we had put this wire so that the police cannot see it properly. We jumped this wire that we had put on the PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE

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road, and we were trying to trap the police because we knew where the wire was, and they didn't know about the wire.

Some of the students came out of the hall and there were others who were arrested and you could see a lot of vans coming and loading a lot of students from the hall. I heard my name being mentioned by some of the comrades and I realised that I was in trouble, so I took to the streets and tried to hide so that I can go and put up in one of my families.

I went to Durban neck and stayed with Sis Nomatokazi, who was a wife to Heshu. Then I could see that I was not safe either here, because landrovers were the order of the day. You could see that everyday there were policemen who were coming. I went to Fort Hare and I stayed with Zolayai in his room.

I stayed until November and then thereafter I felt that I should go again. I came back to Zakhele here in Port Elizabeth. I used to visit occasionally my family. We learnt that there was going to be a show at Rio. The show was Save the Children. It was a fundraising project so as to release some of the students who were detained.

Mzukizi Mapiteza was amongst those people. Thozamile Botha was the organiser of the show. I think it is when he was arrested. I think the police came looking for me, but they found him instead and then they arrested him.

MS RAMASHALA: Ask what role your brother was playing in the fundraising show?

MR NOBADULA: No he just attended as a spectator. He didn't ... (tape starts) ... I learnt that he was arrested in the morning, it was on a Monday. He was asked by the police to give evidence and witness against the PEPCO

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members.

I mean Thozamile Botha if I talk about the PEPCO members. When he went to the witness stand he was ordered to sign a statement which he refused to do. He said the Boers wrote a statement to the effect that Botha wanted to overthrow the Government, but in court he said he had signed, because he was pressurised by the police.

I still maintain that the show was Save the Children, which was aimed at releasing and handing bail for those who were detained. Thozamile was released, but he was arrested again.

I think it was about four days after he was released, so he was arrested again. I went to the lawyer, Mr Jackson and we wanted to find out where was he detained. We were also trying to arrange for his release because he was ill. He was asthmatic. Mr Jackson tried his best, I went up and down, trying to assist him.

I did not care what happened to me, the only thing is that I wanted him to be released, even if I could be arrested in his place. It was said he was going to attend a court hearing at Algoa. I went to Algoa as arranged.

I left Algoa at four and when I got into my place, I found a lot of people at my place and I was surprised what was happening, but I suspected that something wrong had happened.

It was only the children who were there.

MS RAMASHALA: Can we go back a little bit. When he was arrested, what was the charge?

MR NOBADULA: I do not know. That is what I was investigating. That is why I went to Mr Jackson, I wanted to find out what was the charge laid against him. Can I go

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further?

MS RAMASHALA: Yes.

MR NOBADULA: During this time I was informed that he was dead. There was a gentleman coming from Johannesburg and we were informed that he was going to do the post-mortem. Before the post-mortem was done, I felt that we should go and identify him first.

There was an argument because the police refused us access to the body. Because we had a lawyer, we were able to ask for his assistance and we went there and we were allowed to see him. When we got there ...

MS RAMASHALA: When he was detained, where was he detained when he was arrested?

MR NOBADULA: I do not know. That is why we were going up and down trying to locate him. Nobody ever informed him, we didn't know whether he was Algoa or Rooihell or whether he was in court cells, we didn't know. That's what we wanted to find out.

When we went to Mount Roots, there was another Boer, I don't know his name but he made things difficult for us, but at the end we were able to see him.

I wanted him to be turned over because he was laying face down. When I removed the cover, I could see that there were scars on the back, there were holes as if he had been pricked with a fork, he was bleeding. He had a jeans on and it had blood on it.

So I said Mr Jackson should keep it and we didn't wash the blood stains from the trousers. I think Tsamimba can know better also, because he was his friend and secretary.

MS RAMASHALA: And a Doctor?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, there was.

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MS RAMASHALA: Did he say the cause of death was natural?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, when the Doctor gave us the findings, he said the cause of death was natural. Believe so, my mother has got a certificate.

MS RAMASHALA: Okay.

MR NOBADULA: After the post-mortem was done, we also wanted to attend court so that we can know what had happened. We couldn't do anything further because we didn't have financial support to continue.

The question that you are asking about the cause of death was asked by Kruger. That is where we learnt in court because he was asked by Helen Suzmann to give information about his death and then I think I can stop there.

MS RAMASHALA: How old was your brother when he died?

MR NOBADULA: He was 29 years old.

MS RAMASHALA: Other than attending, was your brother politically active?

MR NOBADULA: No, he wasn't. He was not an activist.

MS RAMASHALA: Why do you think - up everybody, why do you think your brother in particular was picked up?

MR NOBADULA: I cannot answer this question. What I can think is they took him just to cause injury to the family because he was also Nobadula, because they couldn't find me and they felt that they could find any member of the family.

MS RAMASHALA: And after they picked him up of course they forced him to testify against, to sign a statement against Thozamile Botha?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, it is so.

MS RAMASHALA: To even think about your brother's death, but to think that he may have been picked up because they were looking for you, is even doubly painful. What is your

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thinking about it?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, we are still disturbed and this has affected us very much. I think the Commission can assist us to trace the killers of my brother.

I think that can relieve me because even his friends do not know what happened to him, they want to find out what happened to him.

My grandmother always asks and cries and I always have to silence her because I can see that she becomes moved. No, his is not married, he doesn't have any children.

MS RAMASHALA: Circumstances surrounding your brother's death, is there anything else that you would like to ask the Commission to do?

MR NOBADULA: My wish is the same as Mrs Mtimkhulu's wish, I think I just want to add a little on that. All the victims who have suffered, especially those who are at Mendi, it is a rent office, there was a monument there and the monument are - there are heroes who are written there about the people who died during the Mendi, sinking of the Mendi ship. I would like to have something like that in commemoration of the heroes.

INTERPRETER: The interpreter cannot hear.

REVD TUTU: Dr Boraine.

MR BORAINE: Mr Nobadula, just help me with one or two questions. First of all Mr Jackson, do you remember, is he practising in Port Elizabeth and do you know his first name?

MR NOBADULA: He was here in Port Elizabeth at the time, I don't know where he is now. He was with Mr Solomon at the First National building.

MR BORAINE: You mentioned that the post-mortem that the district surgeon, Dr Laing found that the cause of death was PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE

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natural. Did you have another private doctor at the same post-mortem or is there only the district surgeon?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, there was another doctor who came from Johannesburg, they said he is a pathologist.

Mr Jackson organised that he should also come for the second opinion, I cannot remember his name.

MR BORAINE: Can you remember what his conclusions were about the cause of your brother's death?

MR NOBADULA: We wanted to know, but nobody ever gave us the results of the post-mortem, we just saw on papers.

MR BORAINE: We can find out from Mr Jackson perhaps what the name of the pathologist was and follow that up because I think that is very critical. I assume that there was no actual inquest or was there an inquest following your brother's death?

MR NOBADULA: No, there was no inquest about my brother's death.

MR BORAINE: One last question. Was anybody with you when you went to the mortuary to see your brother and to see the scars and the blood?

MR NOBADULA: Yes, there was somebody who was working at Mr Jackson's office, Mr Blackie, he is the person who assisted us and gave us transport to go and visit the mortuary.

MR BORAINE: Thank you.

REVD TUTU: Thank you very much. We thank you for your patience. The most important thing that I would like to express is although you have lost your brother, you are more disturbed because you believe that the police were looking for you and then your brother died instead of you.

We also acknowledge the fact that in addition to what Mrs Mtimkhulu has requested, it is very important that you

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have also voiced out that you want something to be done for others instead of for you only as an individual.

This makes us very proud of you because you are thinking of the nation as a whole, thank you very much.

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