Is this the Ntando who was in the witness stand now?

Yes, it is the same Ntando I’m talking about.

Here in the hospital?

There were policemen who were just coming in and out the hospital. We were under the police guard, you can just imagine I was handcuffed whilst I was admitted.

By the time you were shot and you were in hospital I trying to say you were handcuffed your feet were cuffed to the bed - by the bed?

Yes.

You are being handcuffed.

There were two doctors who came into the ward. And they could see that I was in leg irons. There were two of us who were handcuffed whilst admitted. The doctors didn’t comment about this strange issue and they just went out.

Were those the police?

No, it was the doctors, they called one of the police and they communicated with him. We could see that the police was looking at our directions and then he came and removed the handcuffs from us. I was admitted for about three months, and the doctors were trying to look where the bullet was located I had skin graphs I was operated on and they tried to restore the condition of my arm. They took out a 9 mm bullet and they said they are going to do a skin graft.

They asked me, did I prefer the skin graft to be taken from the thigh or from the rectum. I refer to come from the thigh and then they did the operation that where I received my skin graft.

How long did you stay in hospital?

I came there on the 23^rd of May, I was discharged on the 25^th August - it was on a Friday. When I was discharged I was informed that I would be taken to a place, but I could feel that I was not well yet. You could see that the wounds were septic. I made inquiries about why they could discharge me whilst I was still septic. They stated that I would receive continuous treatment at the Out Patients Department in the clinic in my location.

So I used to go every day for treatment. A van came and I was collected by the police, and then I was taken to the police station here in town at Worcester. I could see that there were policemen around but there was one who was a Coloured. He asked me whether I was under police guard in the hospital and I said yes. He said I must not give this information to the Captain because I would be arrested again.

When the Captain came in I was taken to him and he asked me the same question and I said no. He didn’t say anything further and then I was taken by the police in a van from Ashton was called telephonically. After about 30 minutes the van came to take me. Mr Dodson was the one who was driving the van.

Mr Dodson took me. I had a letter from the hospital. I did not know the contents of the letter because they just informed me that I should open it when the police wanted to arrest me. Mr Dodson took me to Ashton, I was at the back of the van. I was informed to wait for Mr Joubert, I waited for him.

He was the Captain during that time. I waited for Mr Joubert outside the police station. By the time he entered inside and he saw that it was a black person saying kaffers you throwing stones and swear at me badly.

After I heard that he was insulting me I gave him the letter that I was supposed to give him. He opened this letter and read it through and then he swear at me again and then he told me to go - to go home, I am sorry to say so.

I was taken by Mr Dodson and he informed me that he is taking me home so I took my goods and go home. When I arrived home I sat and rest. After a month my mother took me to Mach that is lawyers in Montagu. We went there and my mother told me that we were making a claim.

When we arrived there he gave the statement as it - she gave the statement as it is. I didn’t know what happened I didn’t attend any Court. It ended up by the time I was giving out the statement and my mother - there was nothing that was taken further.

Who was the name of the lawyer.

I am sorry, I can’t remember their names.

Where were they?

They were in Montagu.

Was it a black lawyer or a white one?

This person was a white person.

Is he still here?

No, the place has been closed a long time ago. It’s no longer in Montagu.

By the time you were shot - I am sorry were you - you wanted to say something.

Yes what I wanted to say is while I was at home the hospital wanted to refund me and the clinic, by the time I was being treated there I was supposed to pay some fees out of my own pocket, the hospital also, because I was getting medicine some pills and the bandages were being changed time and again, so I had to pay all those costs.

Are you still taking any treatment?

No, not at all.

What was the treatment for?

This was the treatment for my arm then while I was sick.

How is your arm now?

I can’t say it is 100% okay, I would say that it’s is little bit injured, because when it’s cold, - cold I feel the pain not healed because when it is cold I feel the pain. I suffer a lot of pain because of the operation, sometimes it gets worse, I can’t carry heavy stuff.

By the time you were shot you were 11 years old - that’s what you informed us. Its very surprising that the vigilantes old man as you, have told us and counted them they were chasing an eleven year old boy. You told us that you were a relative of the mother that was a funeral of hers on that day.

You also stated that this old lady passed away because she was old enough and yet she was a political activist.

I am just trying to put things together to get an idea of how an 11-year-old being chased by an old man like the ones who were chasing you and shot you. Maybe you can clearly identify and clarify to me are you a relative to this mother who was also in a struggle. Why do you think these guys were chasing you?

That’s what I am also trying to figure out because I cannot clearly get the point. Maybe I would say the reason is my family was also involved in the struggle. Even in the school boycotts I was also involved but I had no idea I was still young.

Mishak Jonas used to come to our home. He is a friend of one of the men who is living at my place. I have got a sister named Nombeko. Sometimes she used to ask him why he did this. He always defence himself saying he was not shooting at me, he was shooting to the comrade, I was shot mistakenly.

That is the information he is giving to my sister. I don’t know I had no reason why they did this to me.

The other thing that I can’t clarify in my mind is the picture of an 11-year-old boy being handcuffed in hospital under a police guard as you are telling us that you are still very young and this person you’ve stated here name Jonas, saying that he was not shooting at you he was just chasing and shooting after the comrades.

And yet you were under a police guard. What do you think the reason for all this situation.

As I have said before, I can say the reason the police handcuffed me it’s because a person who has been shot in Zolani or Ashton was involved in the struggle of boycotts. That’s how I can think about it so far. I can’t give you a clear definition and explanation. That’s what I experienced. I couldn’t question them as I was also afraid and I was painful.

Sometimes when we are asking you questions we need to clarify even the people who are listening, we want them to get a clear clarification. Most times we want a witness to tell what you were thinking of during that time. These men, Kokoloi, Matroos and Watu and even Koki, Panie Matrossi - are they related to each other?

Yes, they are.

Michak Jonas who used to come to your home and Musak Ndabene , Golas Ndabene, Mulungi Seketsu and Tusuloo and others, are they still in Zolani?

Yes, they are still there but Mr Koki and Matrossi passed away. But his family still lives in Zolani.

Do you know where are they staying? Do they attend the community meetings, churches, funerals and all the other community involvement’s?

Yes, I do know where they are staying.

How do you live with these people, how do you communicate? It’s not the first time they have been mentioned. Maybe the other witnesses who come to the stand will mention them.

How do you feel to stay amongst people like this?

As we are staying with them, no-one is giving them any hard time, they are just staying as happy as we are during this period. When you see them, what do you think of them?

When I see them what do you think of them.

When I see them - especially Mishak Jonas, I hate him a lot. The reason is what he did to me is unacceptable and I can also say that he is telling lies that he was not shooting at me. Because what he did to me was unacceptable and I dislike it at all end of Tape 2, Side A …

My sisters my brother and my mother was also unacceptable, the year then was 1985, my mother got arrested in one of the police cells and was detained and released again after some time.

After a while my sister also was detained - her name is Jackie.

My brother was also detained and what they did to him like Mr Kokoloi, Watu and others, the treatment they were giving to him, the beatings, I didn’t like them at all.

I still have that hatred but I don’t show it to them. I communicate peacefully with them, I don’t think I’ll show it to them. I communicate peacefully with them as if I have reconciled.

Maybe it is very difficult to stay with the people who were oppressing your family so much.

That’s what I can say so far - it is difficult but there is nothing one can do. There is no other way, I must stay where I am staying, I can’t revenge them, I will be arrested if I do that. I am just staying with them, welcoming them peacefully, there is no other way I can do.

Thank you very much Wessel.

Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON:

As I was reading through your name, Wessel London, I thought you were coming to speak English and I thought you were from abroad. We thank you very much, because by the time you got shot you were still young aged eleven and the words you passed to your family, those were also treated badly during that incident - what and the fruits of the struggle that you were involved in - it was painful - it is still painful and yet we thank you a lot.

The things that you are stating - putting forward to the Commission, we will try our best to help and assist you. Thank you very much, you may leave the stand.

We are going to mention how is the Truth Commission, the procedure of the Youth Commission. People from rural areas do come forward and you give the statements to them. It is not everybody who is giving out a statement, who will be able to come and witness for what to the Commission.

We are receiving a lot of statements. There are many people all over the country who would like to come forward and witness what they saw. We plead to you not to get bored or tired. And you must not ignore the way we are treating this situation. We are trying our best that in hearings like these we are trying to have as many examples as possible.

Like for instance I would say, we don’t like to show you that it’s only the comrades who struggled during that time of the apartheid era. Other people did also suffered. We heard about necklacing??? we heard about white people who were also tortured so that people can know this Commission serve world-wide all over South Africa, that’s how I can say it.

And what we would like to achieve and say to the people we would to get a history of the incidents that happened as from 1960 up to 1993. So we are pleading with you don’t get a negative attitude if you didn’t get your change to come to the witness stand or think that what you told us we would throw it in the dirty box. No, it won’t be like that, we will accept it, and keep it.

Even your story will be in the report that will be given to the President of our country. And if you find that you are the person who were assaulted - heavily assaulted, everything that was going to be done to you if you did come to the stand or as you didn’t come, we are still going to help you a lot and assist you and support you right through.

Someone who may not have witnessed here should not consider that their written statement will be ignored. This is not so, the written statement will be a part of the eventful report to the President. Even if you have only made a written statement and not a spoken witness, your notes will also be referred to the Committee of Reparations even if you did not appear before the Commission in person.

So don’t loose your temper if we can’t get you to come and speak before us personally as if it’s some new apartheid that only some people gets an opportunity to speak and others don’t get an opportunity to speak. Thank you very much.