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people's warExplanation MR DE KOCK: Yes, everybody was enthusiastic. People would have had fist fights in order to be first in line. Today of course they're fighting to be last in line but I will tell you that everybody was enthusiastic about it. MR MAKOLA: We were talking in public, that is the day when we had a meeting. We had a meeting of the youth league then the leadership when they arrived without the youth outside, outside the hall, when we enquired what was the problem we found out that the hall was locked because Boy Skosana did ... MR MOSIA: That is before the operation because he was arrested and then he received bail, then he came to my house and informed about that particular case. That he was arrested together with unknown people who were policemen, then I was surprised. DR RANDERA: Mr Molotshwa, you too live in Tokoza and we are going to December in 1990 and also a few months later, in December of 1990 your brother Ntembikose Mlotshwa was shot and killed and so was your brother in law Tom Buthelezi, I think. All three people who were shot and killed were members ... ADV SANDI: Who were shooting at the people and why? MR GOOSEN: Chairperson, with many of these instances the principle of need-to-know is applied and it was drilled in if something is not disclosed to you, you do not ask questions about it, if people want to inform you they will inform you. In considering the evidence before it, more particularly that of Mr Kriel, the Committee accepts that the setting up of the road block was in line with general AWB police and that the prime objective was to obtain weapons in this manner. The Committee does not, however, accept that it was policy ... The police ran away and they went into the van. Then I took him away from where he was lying and lifted him and some people came as well who was trying to help me, because I was alone at that moment. They took him inside the house and when we got inside the house, when I tried to undress to take ... CHAIRPERSON: But what would you say to the case of an applicant who, just as an example, applies for assaulting persons in detention and lists 80 people that he might have assaulted and then says: "Look, I've tried my hardest, these are the people I can remember", he comes to the hearing and two ... As these people were interrogating us they wanted to know whether we were going to give the same story and we did give them the same story and we were taken to White River, but we did not see each other, we were locked up separately. Mr Chairman, the people subpoenaed are present today. That is Mr Andre Beetge, Mr Nick Deetliefs and Mr Adriaan Pieter van Niekerk as well as Captain Holmes. Mr Chairman, what I am going to say excludes Captain Holmes, it applies to the first three I have mentioned. The Applicant relies solely on the alleged instructions by Zulu, which, as communicated by Mr van der Hyde, Zulu denies. Zulu though did not testify and the denial carries less weight than the allegation by the Applicant, made under oath. There is however the fact, not explained by the Applicant, ... DR RANDERA: Tata you talk about having spent 12 years on Robben Island and those from my reading of people who have been there was some of the darkest days on that prison. Can you tell us something about your experiences on the island. CHAIRPERSON: We wonder, is there any doctor in our midst here? Just to go and help us with Mrs Makghato. She has just, you know, just first-aid people perhaps. You can continue, Piet. The first evening they left and said they're going to fetch some other comrades in Phalaborwa and then we slept. The following day they took me to Togoyang next to a river called Stubatza. They put something black around my face, they undressed me and poured water on me, and I started feeling ... It is my further submission that it has been unclear as to when, how, the operation which we have I think perhaps badly referred to as the Fourie operation, planned. My submission, Chairperson, Honourable Committee members is that having listened to the evidence and perhaps even consulted with ... I would expect that you would have said that we are a technical department, we receive, let's use the word "job card", if it is approved by the powers to be, people in the higher ranks and we know that there is approval, then according to this job card, I then have to complete this. I would not ... house and I went towards the tarred road, that is the main road because I thought there was transport and my intention was to go to the hostel. I stood for quite a long time there waiting for the taxi and I saw there was some violence. There was absolutely no calm. At that time a youth appeared ... CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you gentlemen from Berlin. You look angry as if you are about to fight. May the Digeni people travel safely. We will hand over to Tiny Maya who is going to lead evidence on behalf of the Commission. As it is, a number of applicants who are not in custody, have not yet been heard because preference is being given to people who are in custody. |
