ON RESUMPTION
MR SIBEKO: The next applicant Mr Chairman, is Mr Sipho Albert Mkhonto. His application appears on page 160 under application number AM7012/97.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Mkhonto, which language would you prefer to use?
MR MKHONTO: Zulu.
SIPHO ALBERT MKHONTO: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO: Thank you Mr Chairman. Sir, will I be correct to say that you are applying for amnesty for murder and unlawful possession of a firearm and ammunitions?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is true.
MR SIBEKO: Were you a member of the Self Defence Unit, sir?
MR MKHONTO: Yes.
MR SIBEKO: Which Section?
MR MKHONTO: Radebe Section.
MR SIBEKO: Which township?
MR MKHONTO: That is in Katlehong.
MR SIBEKO: Who was your Commander?
MR MKHONTO: My Commander was that ...(indistinct)
MR SIBEKO: Mr Hlutwa?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is Mr Hlutwa.
MR SIBEKO: Were you also a member of the African National Congress?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: The incidents that you are applying for, do you know when they occurred, the dates when they occurred?
MR MKHONTO: I can still remember the year, it was July 1993.
MR SIBEKO: Now what happened in that particular month, in July 1993?
MR MKHONTO: His house was burnt down.
MR SIBEKO: Who is the person that you murdered?
MR MKHONTO: Absolom Shozi.
MR SIBEKO: Absolom Boy Shozi?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: How did it happen sir?
MR MKHONTO: The decision was already taken that if we found him, he is supposed to be killed, because he was an IFP member.
It happened one day when he was, the decision was taken in the community meeting, that wherever we find him, he was supposed to be killed.
CHAIRPERSON: Why was he to be killed?
MR MKHONTO: He was the leader of the IFP and they were harassing the community. They were assaulting people and doing all the wrong things that were not supposed to be done in our community.
He was a leader of that particular group of people. I was from my home one day, when I left my home, I wanted to go towards the direction of the play grounds, I wanted to see what was happening there. When I was still going there, I saw Tumo and Mobi. They asked me, they wanted to know where I was going. I told them that I was just going for a walk towards the direction of the play ground, they told me not to go to that direction because Mr Shozi was coming down from his home towards the play ground.
When I looked further, I saw him and I knew that this was the person that we were told about. We were told to kill. I did not waste time, I went to Mr Masidane's place where the AK47 was. The gentleman's surname is Masidane, I went to his place to fetch the AK47.
I explained everything to him, and I told him that I want him to give me the firearm because Mr Shozi was around. He gave me the firearm. After giving me this firearm, I took it and I went up to Shozi's place. When I appeared, Mr Shozi had taken a direction towards Kwasine Hostel.
We decided to walk, to go via some short cuts.
MR SIBEKO: When you went to fetch this firearm, you were alone, is that correct?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, I was alone.
MR SIBEKO: And then when you got this firearm and looked for Mr Shozi, you say now, you are talking in terms of we. Who else was there and how did, when exactly did you meet the second person or the third person?
MR MKHONTO: The other person that I met on the way was Mzambia. I told him that Mr Shozi was around and he had taken a Kwasine Hostel direction. I went there with him, to try and prevent him from going further.
Ndamase came, and in that process, there were three of us now. When he went down that street where we were waiting for him, I told Mzambia that I am not good in handling the firearm, I cannot handle the firearm, or use a firearm. He took the firearm, he prepared it for me and he gave it back to me.
He told me to shoot him. I shot at him, for about three times, but I was not successful. Ndamase told me that the only thing that is needed to kill, to injure this person, was the knives and the pangas before shooting him. Ndamase rushed to fetch the panga and when the other people heard the gunshots went outside, they wanted to know what was happening.
When they came, they saw Mr Shozi. They did not ask questions, they hit him, they stabbed him, they hacked him. I was next to them. After hacking and stabbing him, they instructed me to shoot him.
I shot at him for about five times. After that, I took the firearm back to the place where I found it before.
MR SIBEKO: Right. You met Mzambia when you got the firearm, is that correct?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: You went together with Mzambia and as you say, you went through your covers, until you waited for Mr Shozi somewhere?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Whilst waiting, the third person joined in, that is Ndamase?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, Mr Ndamase came through another short cut.
MR SIBEKO: When Mr Shozi appeared, you started firing at him, is that correct?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: And you say you didn't miss him, in fact, at what distance, what was the distance between yourselves, that is yourself and Mr Shozi?
CHAIRPERSON: Did you miss him when you shot at him?
MR MKHONTO: No. No, I did not miss him. I was shooting at close range, because from the place where we were hiding, we could see him, but he couldn't see us.
When he came closer, just at a distance of where I am right now and you Mr Chairman, I appeared and I started shooting.
MR SIBEKO: The shots that you fired, did not hit him, is that correct?
MR MKHONTO: No, the shots did not hit him.
MR SIBEKO: And then Ndamase said he should be, Mr Shozi should be stabbed first before he could be fired at, is that correct?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Ndamase started stabbing him and thereafter you fired shots?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, while Ndamase went to fetch the panga, and the other people heard the gunshot outside, and they had to go out and check what was happening, and the others came because they heard the gunshots, they came and they saw Mr Shozi and they knew that he was about to be killed. During that process, he was stabbed and hacked.
He started to bleed, because I had to wait for him to bleed and I shot at him.
MR SIBEKO: From there, after you fired your shots, you left?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, I went to place the firearm where it was before.
MR SIBEKO: Do you know what ultimately happened to him thereafter?
MR MKHONTO: No, I don't know what happened because I left the scene because I went to place the firearm somewhere.
MR SIBEKO: If you were to meet the survivors of Mr Shozi, would you make peace with them?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, if I can meet with those people, I will ask for forgiveness. I will be very happy to get that opportunity, because what I did at the time, I was not doing it for my own benefit, I was doing it for the benefit of the community. Because of the situation at the time, it was very tense, the situation was very tense, I was forced to do whatever, I wanted to free my community from all those things because if I did not do that, I was also going to die.
I am asking for an apology, even if they can come here, I can ask for an apology.
MR SIBEKO: Thank you Mr Chairman, I've got no further questions for the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO
ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP
MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Mkhonto, do you know why he was supposed to bleed first before the bullets can strike him?
MR MKHONTO: No. I do not know, because I never used muti or traditional medicine before. Ndamase was the one who was using the muti. He is the one who knew what should happen to a person, who it is not very easy to shoot him. He knew that he is supposed to be hacked or stabbed before one can manage to shoot that particular person.
MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, that is the only question.
ADV GCABASHE: Thank you Chair. Mr Mkhonto, you did say that the reason that Mzambia prepared the firearm for you, was because you couldn't use it. What did you say about why did he prepare the firearm for you?
MR MKHONTO: I was not able to bridge the firearm.
ADV GCABASHE: Not that you weren't able to use it, it is just the bridging that you couldn't do?
MR MKHONTO: Yes, I was able to use the firearm.
ADV GCABASHE: Now tell me, had you not come across these two friends of yours, how were you going to use this firearm that you couldn't bridge? Where were you going to with this firearm that you couldn't bridge?
MR MKHONTO: I knew that if I am walking through those short cuts, I was sure that I would find someone, or else I was going to go to the base and find some other gentlemen there who would help me to go and kill Mr Shozi, to help and bridge the firearm for me.
ADV GCABASHE: Right, one final question. You shot at Mr Shozi the first time and you couldn't hit him, well, you were unsuccessful. What was Mr Shozi doing at that time, you were shooting at him, you could see that your bullets were not doing anything to him, what was he doing?
I would have run away, what did he do?
MR MKHONTO: When I was shooting at him, he was coming to me. He was coming to me to take this AK47. As I was shooting, I was reversing, I was going back, but he was approaching me, he was coming to me to get the firearm.
ADV GCABASHE: He didn't have anything in his hands, he wasn't armed?
MR MKHONTO: No, he was unarmed.
ADV GCABASHE: So really in a sense you were rescued by the people who came out and started attacking him and hacking him, because the man was approaching you and you were busy reversing?
MR MKHONTO: I can say so. I can say I was rescued by those people who came and hacked him and stabbed him.
ADV GCABASHE: Thank you Mr Mkhonto, thank you Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, at this stage I would like to withdraw the application of Sebati Mante Sofi, which appears on page 204, application number AM5473/97.
CHAIRPERSON: It is so withdrawn.
APPLICATION OF S M SOFI AM 5473/97 WITHDRAWN
MR SIBEKO: At this moment, may I be excused Mr Chairman?
CHAIRPERSON: Are you done?
MR SIBEKO: There is only one application which is left, I cannot see the applicant, he is not here, he hasn't arrived.
CHAIRPERSON: What do we do about that?
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman?
CHAIRPERSON: What are we going to do about that?
MR SIBEKO: I spoke to him yesterday, he said he would be here today. I beg leave that we stand it down. If he doesn't arrive, then I will leave it in the hands of the Committee.
CHAIRPERSON: Just don't leave now, I just want to find out something from Mr Steenkamp. What have we got left Mr Steenkamp?
ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, Mr Sanje Makanjee is ready to take the chair with your permission, to start immediately, is ready and correct and he is ready to proceed after Mr Sibeko, that is correct.
CHAIRPERSON: Let's carry on like that.
