CHAIRPERSON: Now Mr Sibeko, I think that would take care of the Committee of Seven. We were told that the application in respect of Mr Jan Thubaka Dlamini would be withdrawn, is that correct?
MR SIBEKO: In actual fact, Mr Chairman, that is true. Ja, we withdraw certain applications on the basis that he never took part. Although he was elected, he never took part in the activities of the Committee of Seven so there was no need for him to bring such an application.
ADV SANDI: Yes, but did he not agree with everything that the Committee was doing?
MR SIBEKO: My instructions are that he never took part because of his personal commitments, work situation and things like that, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: ...(inaudible) that would take care of the Committee of Seven members in Lusaka-A?
MR SIBEKO: That's correct, Mr Chairman.
ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, if I may be so rude to interrupt here. Mr Chairman, I think I will not be doing my duty properly if I do not inform you that I was requested this morning by my learned colleague that Mr Bonga Nkosi, he's not on the list there, but certain of the applicants see him as a commander.
Now because of the running of the concurrent amnesty hearings of the SDUs, as I may refer to them, in Vosloorus as well, Mr Nkosi was supposed to appear in Vosloorus this morning. I have made arrangements through the Investigation Unit that he be available tomorrow morning for my learned colleague at 9 o'clock to consult and give submit his testimony.
I'm not quite sure whether or not that would be appropriate that will be, maybe to start with other applicants while Mr Nkosi has not testified yet. You will find in the bundles, Mr Chairman, the reason why I'm saying this, because you'll find in the additional bundles on the document called "Background Information -Thokoza Conflict - Amnesty Hearings SDUs". It's a thin document. There is actually a submission by Mr Nkosi contained in that bundle. I'm just bringing your attention to that as well, Mr Chairman. Thank you, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, but perhaps I should just check with Mr Sibeko first.
Apart from the Committee of Seven members, are there any other of the applicants in this session that you would be representing?
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, as far as I know, besides the Committee of Seven for today we still have Mr Mosa Danton Msimango who happened to be a commander of this unit that we are talking about here. Inasfar as the one that my learned colleague has referred to, I don't have any information. I only know of Mr Danton Msimango.
CHAIRPERSON: So Mr Sibeko, is that the only other applicant that you would be appearing for, Mr Mosa Danton Msimango?
MR SIBEKO: According to the list and dates for today, this was the number of people but there are some other applicants here for other dates.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, no, no, I understand you. So the point is that we're going to have your company here for a while, it's not ...
MR SIBEKO: It's correct, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Right, no, I realise what has happened, because there's such a large number of applicants it doesn't make sense to notify all of the applicants to be present at the hearing on the same day, and for that reason there is actually a roll which contains a number of people to appear on specific dates. So it appears as if, apart from the testimony of Mr Nkosi of course, which causes a bit of a problem because he's also involved in the hearing that our colleagues are attending to elsewhere, also in regard to Self Defence Units. Of course he's not freely available for this session. In fact I believe that he is an applicant in the other proceedings, so he will really be appearing as a witness in these proceedings, for the applicants in this case.
So it appears as if the people that we were going to take for the day, the roll for the day, has been covered, isn't it Advocate Steenkamp?
ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, that's correct. I can confirm, apparently Mr Nkosi is on his way here on an urgent basis but there's still the question of, I'm sure my learned colleague must still speak to him. Unfortunately I was not prepared for it that we're going to go through the role so quickly.
Be that as it may, Mr Chairman, it also will give us some leeway to prepare the roll for the next few days and sort out all other legal difficulties such as legal aid and so forth but that's entirely in your hands, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, yes, I assume that Mr Sibeko will want to consult before he reads the testimony of Mr Nkosi. There's probably little sense in continuing this afternoon. It seems as if we have completed all of the cases that were scheduled to be heard today.
ADV STEENKAMP: Absolutely correct, Mr Chairman, we are actually right on schedule as it stands.
CHAIRPERSON: I might have misunderstood, Mr Sibeko, was the idea that Mr Msimango would be testifying today?
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, the reason I say so is that I am aware that his name appears somewhere on the 27th of this month but at the same time it does appear immediately underneath, although it's handwritten, it appears immediately underneath the names of the Committee of Seven. So if he has been scheduled for the 27th, it's still fine we can proceed as it is, it's not a problem with me.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I'm not sure what the arrangement was. It appears as if at least those people that were supposed to have been heard today, it looks like we've completed their testimony. It doesn't look as if, according to the roll that we have, Mr Msimango was scheduled for today but rather for the 27th as you seem to have it over there.
ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, if I may be so rude again. Mr Chairman, I'm informed that Mosa Danton Msimango, number 7370 is actually the, was the commanding officer of Lusaka-A. So it would actually make more sense to call him before the rest of the applicants are actually called, and I believe Mr Msimango is present. The other Msimango I was told unfortunately has passed away, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Alright. Mr Sibeko, what is your own position, are you - you do represent Mr Mosa Msimango, now are you in a position to proceed with his application or what is your position?
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, I was in a position to proceed with his application today, in fact I am in a position to proceed with his application today.
CHAIRPERSON: Alright. Now if he's also in a position of authority and is not just an ordinary member of the SDUs, perhaps it does make sense to take his testimony with the rest of the people who seem to have been in a position of authority. So perhaps we should then take his application as well. Can we get Mr Mosa Danton Msimango?
