HEARING STARTS WITH AN OPENING HYMN FOLLOWED BY A PRAYER
CHAIRPERSON: We thank the Reverend Mzalo for opening our day with a prayer. We welcome everyone here today, especially those that are coming to testify before the Commission on this our second day in Grahamstown. I am now going to hand over to Ms Tiny Maya who is going to announce the order of the day.
MS MAYA: Thank you Chairperson. Honourable Chairperson, on this our second day here in Grahamstown, Tuesday 8 April 1997 I would like to present to you the list of people who have applied to come and give testimony before the Truth and Reconciliation Commission about human rights violations. I am going to read it out to you in order of he victims that are going to appear here.
Today we are dealing with three regions, Canteen on Sea, Port Alfred and Alexandria and Grahamstown. The people who we have on our list today are 27 but because there were three people left from yesterday we have 23 people in total. I am going to read the names of the people on our list and start with the names of the person who will be testifying, the name of victim coming to the violation, the year in which it took place and the area in which the violation took place or where the person's from.
We've got Nomilile Phillis Tandewi Soya who will be testifying about Mtandamisu Alfred Soya who was murdered in Grahamstown.
Bulwana Vaaltyn will testify about an attempted murder on himself in Grahamstown in 1980.
Lindele Watson Kolisi will be testifying about the disappearance of Sipho Victor Kolisi in 1985 in Grahamstown.
Nombulelo Ethel Msutu will be testifying about the murder of Mtunzi Pendly Msutu in 1986 in Grahamstown.
Nongazi Lillian Mata will testifying about the murder of Hombakazi Matiwani in Grahamstown in 1985.
Velisile Lopy Toyi will be testifying about an atemped murder on himself in 1985 in Grahamstown.
Telerams Nomba Dilling(?) will be testifying about an attempted murder on himself in 1978 in Grahamstown.
Mphiwisi David Sigcawu will be speaking about torture on himself in 1980 in Canteen On Sea.
Tobile Cecil Godolodashe, he will be testifying about severe treatment on himself in Port Alfred in 1985.
Dideka Grace Mishombo will be testifying about the murder of Ben Mishombo in Port Alfred in 1986.
Ethel Nomalungelo Timba will be testifying about an attempted murder on herself in 1984 in Port Alfred.
Nomalady Nomelumsi Tyuku will be speaking about the murder of Madodana Zolisile Tyuku in Port Alfred in 1985.
Nontobeko Joyce Pikole will be speaking about the attempted murder on Mkuseli Pikole in 1985 in Port Alfred.
At this point is not clear whether Mkuseli Pikole is still alive or not but Nontobeko Joyce Pikole will be coming to testify about that incident.
Temtem Kushlane(?) will be testifying about he murder of Mtunyani Nkushlane in 1986 in Port Alfred.
Albertina Gobizembe will be testifying about her severe ill treament in 1985 in Port Alfred.
Peggy Nontutuzelo Memani will be speaking her severe ill treatment in 1985 in Port Alfred.
Pretty Mkalipi will be testifying about her severe ill treatment in 1985 in Port Alfred.
Topsy Novakele Tembani will be testifying about the murders of Zonwabele "Pele" Hermans in 1986 in Alexandria and about Fetze Nomarwayi and Mzimkulu Mkele's murders in 1986 in Alexandria.
Mbulelo Lawrence "Toyo" Peter will be testifying about his sever treatment in 1986 in Alexandria.
The three who remain from yesterday were Chris Mbekela who will be testified about an attempted murder on himself in 1985 here in Grahamstown.
Kholile Christewe Ntonyeno(?) will be speaking about Miseka Ntonyeno who was murdered here in Grahamstown in 1985.
The last one was Vuyane Richard Bete who will be testifying about his sever ill treatment in 1984 in Grahamstown and also the murder of Mbuyiselo Ghadi in 1984 here in Grahamstown and about the murder of Anele Bete in 1984 in Grahamstown. Thank you Chairperson.
With your permission I would like us to start with the three witnesses who remain from yesterday's role.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Ms Maya. Usually when we speak about deceased persons we observe a moment silence to pay respect towards them and there are nine deceased persons about whom testimony will be heard today and another one who disappeared and it is not known whether the person is still alive or not, and I will ask that we all rise as a mark of respect while we read out their names.
We remember Mtantamisa Alfred Soya, Sipho Victor Kolisi, Mtunzi Pendly Msuthu, Hombakazi Matiwane, Ben Mishombo, Madodana Zolisela Tyuku, Mtenyana Koshlana, Zonowabele "Pele" Hermans, Fetze Nomarwayi, and we also remember Mzimkulu Mkele. (Short Prayer).
We are going to begin with the three who were supposed to testify yesterday. We call to the fore Chris Mbekela and Koliwe Christina Tonyela.
REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairperson, I would like to swear in these witnesses
CHRIS MBKELA: (sworn states)
KOLIWE CHRISTINA TONYELA: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: We are going to hand over to Ntsikelelo Sandi who will lead the witnesses testimony. We will begin with you Mr Mbekela.
MR SANDI: Mr Mbekela, when we spoke yesterday and also this morning you said that you would speak about two things. You would tell us what happened to you on the day in question but before doing that you would sketch a picture of the context in which this incident took place, what the situation was here in Grahamstown and what your role was in that context. Is that so?
MR MBEKELA: Yes that is correct.
MR SANDI: Let us begin Mr Mbekela. When this incident took place and when the house in which you were sleeping was set alight and one of the occupants, Miseka Ntonyela died, what would you describe the situation in Grahamstown as having been at that time?
MR MBEKELA: Thank you honourable Sir and also honourable Chairperson, we could say that it was nothing new to us all being seated here today. The situation especially in the 1980's, particularly from 1984 onwards was one which was very unpleasant, where the people of South Africa, especially the youth at that time was fed up with being oppressed. They just had enough of the people of South Africa having been oppressed. I would say Mr Chairperson that the people of South Africa were determined to overthrow the government of the day, they did not want the government at that time and the residential areas of black persons, looking at people who lived around border areas, the border areas were not residential areas any more, they war more war zones because the soldieres, police and military people who had been sent on crash courses and were known as Nats here in the location were trained with the objecive of killing people that lived in the locations and they were deployed to us.
As I have said honourable Committee Members and Commissioners, people were not happy to just sit back and fold their hands. They picked up whatever they could to defend themselves with but with the objective in mind that South Africa should be free.
MR SANDI: Was there any organisation within the area which existed at the time, could you just describe it to us if there was?
MR MBEKELA: There were organisations, there was a residential association known as GRACA, there was another one which still exists today known as COSAS, there was a womens' league known as the Grahamstown Womens' League which was part of the ANC Women's League, also the youth organisation known as GRAICO and at that stage the decision was taken that these organisations be formed and in 1985, since a decision had been taken at a COSAS conference in 1979 that it is important that a youth organisation be formed known as Youth Congress. The youth who were not attending school at the time took the initiative and here in Grahamstown a Grahamstown Youth Congress was formed, but at that time there would be organisations for Grahamstown, P E, East London and so forth.
But because we knew that the battle for South Africa was not a regional battle there was a decision taken that there should be one organisation formed for the entire country because we were not fighting battles for Grahamstown individually or individual regions and that's why in 1980 a meeting was held in Durban where the National Youth Organisation was formed but it was an interim committee.
MR SANDI: We are now talking about the period 1985 and at the time you were a member of the GRAICO organisation here Grahamstown. Could you just very briefly tell us about that?
MR MBEKELA: At that time Chairperson, I was the chairperson of the Grahamstown Youth Congress. We at that stage were busy in organising the youth and informing people as to exactly what the people of South Africa wanted, what kind of freedom we were striving for, because if we could remember correctly Mr Chairperson, the logo of the Grahamstown Youth Congress was a trend which showed that it did not necessarily mean that the youth did not want to be educated but it was an indication that we wanted the youth to be educated, that is why we said that in our meetings, and there was also Pickaxe, where we showed that there are workers amongst the youth as well, and that showed in which direction we were moving so that they could see what kind of liberation we were fighting for. There was also within the logo of the Grahamstown Youth Congress, an assegai, which showed that the assegai was a sign that even when the youth wanted to go for training, the objective was to get rid of the oppressive government, that was why our slogan was Freedom now and not tomorrow.
MR SANDI: Before we speak about the incident of the 25th of May 1985, were there any problems which you encountered with regards to the police or the authorities.
MR MBEKELA: Let me put it this way Mr Chairperson, I could say that I was one of the persons who was more fortunate, I wouldn't regard myself as having been more fortunate than others, I was still very young to have attended school at an early stage. While others were only at Metutu School at seven years of age, I started school at the age of five and at some stage I went to Durban and I matriculated in 1981. In 1982 there were problems because even in Durban I did not just rest on my laurels, I came back here in 1982 and when I got here, I familiarised myself with what was happening, because people were more politically active and that was the last time I led a stable life Mr Chairperson, in 1984 because at that stage I wasn't sleeping at home anymore. My parents would testify to that because even when I got home I wouldn't even sit down and have a meal, I would have a meal on my feet and I'd been all over the country, Durban, Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth where we were mobilising this organisation. There was something else which we called scuttling, I would refer to that as township terminology which describes when one has to hide and the police made life unbearable to and extent where they would even break into cars just so that we would be nervous all the time and where they would take you for interrogation and constantly threaten your life.
I'd like to sketch this very clearly because even when we speak about the spirit of reconciliation we place it in a proper South African political context. In the same way that I am here today in the situation which I am going to describe, it's just a pity that one of the police, I think it was WO Strydom, died during the State of Emmergency, I don't know if he realised that the situation was beyond his control because when he spoke to me during interrogation, he would want to know when we were going to stop this because they were going to kill us. There was a day, because I even assisted SAMU which is a workers' union which was led by Phila Nkaye and Tobile Mseleni and the like, and while I was seen there I was still very young. I was then taken to these buildings which the youth knew as the Carlton Centre and this WO Strydom was there and the others, Fonya and company were also there (end of tape)....and that's the security branch and particularly in Grahamstown as at the time was full of black people who would just sit there and not question you, but they would merely be sent to arrest you. And when it came to interrogation they would just sit there and not participate. I would hate to think that it was lack of intellect.
We had also organised burial committees and I was representing the youth at the burial committees and at that that stage there was the organisation called GRACA and I was then called in and questioned about this burial committee and there was nothing which we hid. I explained to them that the intention of the burial committee was to assist the parents of victims because for some people it was very difficult. In some homes you would find that they did not even have any refreshments or anything and we would send our people to go to the shop and collect money, and some shop owners would even give us food, and Strydom said to me, Chris what we're going to do to you is come to your house. I said to him that I don't have a problem with that. He said, do you know what wer'e going to come and do there? And I said that it was for him to come and tell me.
He said that what they would do is go there and sit there for a long time and ask for tea or something and then people would come and attack us after they had left, thinking that I was an informer. I said that I don't believe that people would be that rash, yes people would do that in the past but they would be able to differentiate between someone who is trying to destroy the apartheid system and someone who wasn't. They said that the reason why they were telling me this is because they were going to kill me. The reason why I'm saying this is because I know it was very painful even for the Mtimkulu Family and some of the people who are applying for amnesty where some people were denied that. Even Meister who is a supposed leader knew about and knew that it had already been decided that myself and other comrades were short listed to be killed, and on a particular day we left for Rhodes University to some comrades who were studying there.
There were three of us and we were intercepted by the Security Police and there was one gentleman whom I knew at the time and towards our release he was transferred to Pretoria. They stopped the three of us, they had these search lights which practically blinded you if shone in your face. They asked us where we were coming from and we told them and they said we were lying and that we would see. What helped us was that a hippo was coming in our direction and we were saved by the fact that they misunderstood this hippo to be saying that they should go. If that had not happened I would not have had this opportunity to come and tell you the truth today.
MR SANDI: Mr Mbekela on the 25th of May 1985 when they set your place alight, would you just sketch to us what happened there?
MR MBEKELA: I was no longer sleeping at home, I was sleeping all over the show. On that day when this incident took place I had already received information that they were guarding my place and I'm sure some people who are here had been working for the police at the time would know that. I wasn't sleeping at home any longer and I don't know what happened that day. I entered my from the back, I never used the front door any longer, we used to jump over the fence and it was after 11. This incident took place at 12 midnight.
When we got in we went to the room and what I remember was the way in which we were startled by the flames which started to come in and it was not a petrol bomb, it was a fire bomb which became apparent during the investigations. It was discovered during the investigations and a specialist opinion was obtained and it was established that it was started by a fire bomb.
Chairperson when this incident took place and when we were startled I grabbed Miseka and we ran. The room in which we were was engulfed by flames. By the time I grabbed her, I'm sure that we must have parted when we got to the door because I would say that at that time I was not thinking straight and she was shouting looking for me and I was looking for her. But what we did was to phone the police firstly. I knew they were very sensitive because they would always have an excuse. In spite of the bad situation I phoned the police and their phone was engaged so I tried again but it was still engaged. I tried to phone the ambulance but it was engaged, I then phoned Priscilla Hall who was someone who worked with us and she responded and said she was on her way.
Someone else who I called was Olivia Visser, I know that her name was associated with investigating people who were involved with the ANC at the time. I got there and we were taken in different cars to the hospital. When we got to the hospital Mr Chairperson we were separated. Miseka had 80% burns on her body and I was told by Superintendent White that I should be admitted. I think he's in P E now. I refused to be admitted because at the time there was information that the Security Branch was outside and at the time they thought that I was dead and when they discovered that I was still alive they wanted to kidnap me so that I would not be traced.
The person who advised me was Roland White because he had pictures of me as well and he said to me that I should not allow myself to be admitted because if I did I would disappear without a trace. And Roland White was chased thereafter, I don't know who chased him, although security branches were involved.
The fact that we are here now is because we as victims deem it very important because the people of South Africa have shown the new government that we do not bear grudges as such. We did not fight for liberation at the time so that we could prosecute these people once we were in power and the person who was leading the security branches, Meister, should come to the fore and say whether these took place with his knowledge or without and if they were done with his knowledge, what he did about them. The names of persons who were used by them to prosecute us should be exposed so that we can know who we can forgive, because you cannot forgive someone without knowing who to forgive.
If I'm not mistaken, the following day Miseka was sent to Livingstone Hospital where she died.
That is what happened Mr Chairperson.
MR SANDI: You said in your statement that you did not lay a charge with regard to this?
MR MBEKELA: We did not lay a charge Mr Chairperson, the situation I was in at the time would have made it very difficult for me to go and lay a charge because if I had done that I would have been arrested. I would have been handing myself over to the police basically because they came to look for me several times to get me to lay a charge. I only made a statement in jail.
MR SANDI: When you were arrested in June, what was your situation like?
MR MBEKELA: Firstly I was not arrested in June, I was arrested after the state of emmergency was declared after Mathews Goniwe's burial in July. The situation at the time was that all activists were psychologically unwell because what was important was that you had to understand your situation so that you could do your own self-counselling by psyching yourself. The situation which I and others were in was that psychologically we were unwell because on the one hand you were being hunted, on the other hand you were not sleeping at home and privately you were disorganised, so I was in a situation of turmoil, to put it properly.
MR SANDI: You said that you wished to know who these people were that did this?
MR MBEKELA: Mr Chairperson I would like to know the perpetrators, the people who did this to me and the people who were working with them, so that we can reconcile here in South Africa because what is important, is to build the nation, because we saw what Apartheid did to the people.
MR SANDI: Is that all you wanted to say?
MR MBEKELA: Secondly, if it is possible, the Truth Commission, I would like it to help the victim because she is no longer here. The life of a person is priceless but if the Government or the Truth Commission would recommend something that would show that her life had value, the family would be satisfied to know who were the people who did this to her.
MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Mbekela. Let us now go to Ms Koliwe Tonyela.
MR SANDI: Is Misaka Tonyela your sister?
MS TONYELA: Yes Mr Chairperson she was my sister.
MR SANDI: How old was she at the time?
MS TONYELA: She was 21 years old.
MR SANDI: What was she doing?
MS TONYELA: She was working in Checkers.
MR SANDI: How did you hear about this incident that Miseka got injured when the house was put alight?
MS TONYELA: Miseka visited her boy friend. She was supposed to go to work at six but she did not come home. We thought that she woke up late so she decided to go straight to work. We went to work and at half past nine our father came and said me Miseka was in Livingstone Hospital, she was in a house that was set alight so she was burnt. I asked who did this and my father said he didn't know but we have to go home and go to the hospital to visit her.
Before we went to Livingstone, my brother decided to phone there and we were told that she had been admitted to that hospital and was in room 3B. We then went to Port Elizabeth and arrived there at about 12 and went to see her. She was badly burnt, I didn't even recognise her. She was dark, black like a tyre, she couldn't even see. I asked Miseka what was it and she told me that they were looking for Christian and were bombed while sleeping. She tried to escape but couldn't. I asked her who did this. who did she suspect and she said that she thought that they were boers.
We couldn't talk to her and then decided to go back to Grahamstown and phoned our brother in Port Elizabeth. He visited her the following day at about eleven and was then told that she passed away.
MR SANDI: On the day of the funeral, were you disturbed by the police?
MS TONYELA: We were not disturbed by the police, the funeral continued without disturbance.
MR SANDI: Do you have a request to make before this Commission today?
MS TONYELA: Yes I have a request. I would like the perpetrators to come forward so that we can know who they are.
MR SANDI: You also mentioned a tombstone. Do you remember what you said about a tombstone?
MS TONYELA: Yes I did mention something about a tombstone.
MR SANDI: Can you please tell us what it was?
MS TONYELA: I told my family about this but they disagreed with me.
MR SANDI: Is that all you want to say?
MS TONYELA: Yes that is all.
MR SANDI: Thank you Ms Tonyela, thank you Mr Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Let me ask Mr Mbekela a question. You say that you were advised to leave the hospital. Who gave you this advice.
MR MBEKELA: It was Roland White.
CHAIRPERSON: Who was he?
MR MBEKELA: He was in Rhodes University in an organisation called NUSAS at the time.
CHAIRPERSON: Why did he advise you to leave the hospital?
MR MBEKELA: Because he saw the security police in hospital. He took their photographs and he also took Miseka's and my photographs. After that he was chased away.
CHAIRPERSON: At the time, how were you injured, you said that Miseka had 80% burns, how were you injured?
MR MBEKELA: I was burned from my back up and down my legs.
CHAIRPERSON: Where did you get treatment?
MR MBEKELA: There were specialists who used to come and treat me but I would be treated in places where I would spend the night. There are also other doctors whose names I won't mention now.
CHAIRPERSON: According to your knowledge, was there cooperation between the security police and the authorities in the hospital?
MR MBEKELA: I can say so because the situation at that time, you wouldn't separate between the authorities and the police, because when I told the superintendent in the hospital that I'm not going to spend the night, we fought because he wanted me to spend the night there. I told him that it was my right not to do so if I don't want to spend the night. Other people were allowed that right, and I told him that because Roland also advised me in front of him, he told me that the security police were in the hospital, they were looking for me.
He didn't treat me well, he didn't use cotton wool, he just put elastoplaster on my wounds but there were other people who sympathised with me especially from other places. After that I was arrested under the State of Emmergency. I was charged with arson, murder of the police. You can not run away from the fact that after this incident people were very angry. The police who are will remember that all the police were chased away from the township. They accused me of instigating the Sithule(?) people that the police were to be chased away.
Some of the charges were dropped while I was arrested under the state of emmergency but I recovered when I was in prison. All in all Mr Chairperson, I would say the Superintendent was in connection with the police. He also played a role and if it is possible I would like him to come forward to the Commission to say if I spoke the truth or what, but I think now he is in Port Elizabeth.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. The question I just asked about the part taken by the hospitals, I asked this question because the Commission is preparing to have a hearing which is going to focus on the people who participated in health services. The evidence we received showed clearly that there was a connection between the police and the people who were supposed to take care of peoples' health.
As the Commission we will look at other professional bodies because they did not kill people, they did not shoot people but they played a role in oppressing people although they did not shoot them directly. Some people got injured but they were not able to go to hospitals for medical car because they saw that there was cooperation between the police and the health services.
We thank you for clarifying this matter because we are going to have a hearing with the Health Services. We also thank you for giving us a picture, a full picture of the struggle of the youth here in Grahamstown. We want to sympathise with you, especially you Ms Tonyela and her family and her family because you lost your sister in this painful manner.
I don't want to waste time talking to you because I can see that you understand that your sister died for liberation at that time. You request you made, especially concerning the perpetrators that they must come forward, I hope that those that are here in Grahamstown, those that were involved are listening today and they would come forward. You assured them in advance that you would forgive them. All that you need is that they should acknowledge that they are the ones responsible for this incident. Thank you.
