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Human Rights Violation Hearings


Starting Date 29 April 1996


Day 2




CHAIRPERSON: I apologise that there was maybe a crossing of wires because we announced that we start at nine and I gather that some were told that we were starting at 9:30. We are starting now and I welcome you. I declare this session open and hand over to the Deputy-Chairperson, Dr Boraine.

MR RANDERA: Your Grace before I hand over to Dr Boraine I would just like to read out the name of the witnesses who are appearing in front of us today.

The first person who is coming today is Marina Geldenhuys, who is going to be speaking on her own behalf.

After that Mrs Rokaya Salogee will be talking about the death of her husband, Suliman Salogee in detention.

Mrs Harwa Timol will be talking about the death of her son Ahmed Timol, also death in detention.

Mrs Sylvia Dhlomo-Jele will be talking about her son Sicelo Dhlomo who was shot dead.

Gregory Beck will be talking about himself when he was injured in a shooting in Soweto.

Michael Meyer also will be talking on behalf of himself.

Lizzie T Sefolo is talking about Harold Sefolo who disappeared.



Martha Maake will be talking about her son Jackson Maake who disappeared.

Mabel Makope will be talking about Andrew Makope who also disappeared.

Finally we have Mamma Gotla Mohale who will be talking about torture in police custody on behalf of herself.

Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. May I introduce the panel. At the extreme left which is your extreme right Professor Piet Meiring, who is a member of the Rehabilitation and Reparation Committee based here in Gauteng. Wynand Malan Commissioner and Deputy Chairperson of the Human Rights Violations Committee based here in Johannesburg, in Gauteng. Hlengiwe Mkhize, Commissioner and Chairperson of the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee. A brand new member of the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee from our region, KwaZulu Natal, Free State, Dr Sibongele Magwaza, and Dr Faizal Randera, Commission, member of the Human Rights Violations Committee and coordinator of our Gauteng regional office. Dr Alex Boraine the Deputy-Chairperson of the Commission and a member of the Human Rights Violations Committee. Yasmin Sooka Commissioner and Deputy-Chairperson of the Human Rights Violations Committee based here in Gauteng. Joyce Seroke member of the Human Rights Violations Committee based in Gauteng. Russel Ally member of the Human Rights Violations Committee based here in Gauteng. Tiny Maya, member of the Human Rights Violations Committee from our Eastern Cape region. Dr Mampule Ramashala, Commissioner, member of the Reparations and Rehabilitations Committee. Chris de Jager, Commissioner and member of the Amnesty Committee. Hugh Lewin who is a



member of the Human Rights Violations Committee of this region here, Gauteng. Tom Manthata, a member of the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee Gauteng region.

Thank you.

DR BORAINE: Chairperson in welcoming everybody here today I would like to make special mention of Dr and Mrs Arwag, very pleased to see them here tonight, Noreen and Frans, and also Mr Vardi and Mr Chiba who are members of Parliament in the National Assembly. Dr Kiesner I gather is also here, I haven't personally seen where he is sitting but wherever you are you are very welcome also.

Chairperson the first witness for the second day of the third sitting of the Commission is Mrs Marina Geldenhuys and I will ask her please to take the witness stand.

Marina I am very pleased to welcome you to the Commission hearings. You are the first this morning. In one way that means you don't have to sit and wait and wait and wait, on the other hand it's perhaps a little more nervous for you to be right at the very beginning. So let me ask you to please relax and just take it easy. Can you hear my voice? Can you hear the translations? Thank you very much indeed. I am not sure who is sitting with you?

MS GELDENHUYS: It's my mother Mrs Rautenbach.

DR BORAINE: Mrs Rautenbach you are very welcome and we are very pleased that you were able to come as well. Marina you were very young, you still are of course, but you were very young, 13 years ago, when your whole life was changed very dramatically and very suddenly and that's the story that you are going to tell us. But before you do I would be very grateful if you would please stand so that we can take the oath.




DR BORAINE: Please sit. I ask my colleague and fellow Commissioner Wynand Malan if he will guide you as you tell your story.

MR MALAN: Good morning Mrs Geldenhuys. I think that we can take it as read that I assume that you would like to speak Afrikaans?


MR MALAN: As a background to your story we can take it that it's common cause that there was a car bomb explosion in Church Street, that it took place on the 20th of May 1983, that 19 people were killed of which 12 were civilians and 7 were defence force personnel and about 219 people were injured. You were one of those injured. So you don't have to deal with the historic background, but we would like to hear your story, what happened that day and how you experienced it from the very first moment that you became aware of it, please.

MS GELDENHUYS: As you all know I was very young. I had just left school and it was my first job, I was working for the defence force, for the Air Force, and my youth was lost very suddenly. I was forced to grow up very quickly. ..(tape ends) ... at the defence force. It was an act of cowardice which was committed and it damaged and injured more civilians than anybody else. Up until this day nobody from government actually did anything after this incident, and on the 20th of next month it will be 13 years ago that it happened. There were defence force members, personnel who received compensation, who are still receiving medical assistance, and I as a civilian who was working for the defence force received medication, medical help and



treatment and assistance whilst I had a medical aid, but what happens today? We are growing older, we still have problems, who do we turn to for help? There is nobody to help us.

MR MALAN: I wonder if I could ask you, could you perhaps just tell us about the nature of your injuries and that might perhaps make it easier for you to tell us what happened?

MS GELDENHUYS: My eardrums were ruptured, I now have a hearing problem, I only have a certain percentage of hearing. I have very deep wounds and scars on my legs, it left very ugly scars. I don't have the full use of my thumbs. One is now shorter than the other one. I have internal injuries. I had facial injuries which also left scars and of course the emotional damage is incalculable.

MR MALAN: You say that the medical aid covered a lot of your medical expenses but after that no provision was made for your medical costs? Did you undergo any remedial plastic surgery which cost you a lot of money?

MS GELDENHUYS: I had to wait a certain period of time before undergoing surgery. Tissue had to be grafted and grown on my legs. Now apparently this operation cannot be performed in this country, it has to be done overseas, maybe things have changed now perhaps after such a lapse of time but assistance for that kind of surgery, financially speaking, I certainly don't have.

MR MALAN: And then lastly, in the information which we have at our disposal I see that you received an amount of R76 000 odd from the President's Fund?

MS GELDENHUYS: Yes I requested compensation from the President's Fund. They replaced material things, for



instance loss of handbag and contents, clothes, and an amount of R300,00 was paid to my mother for fuel expenses. I lived in Springs at the time and I was treated in Pretoria Hospital so I received about R765,66.

MR MALAN: Initially you said it was an act of cowardice, have you been able to place this whole incident in a bigger context? Have you asked yourself what the point of it was and what the consequences of it were? How do you feel about this now, the conflict which took place in the last 30 years, what are your views on this?

MS GELDENHUYS: I still feel that it was a cowardly act. We all know who were responsible for it. I can quote the newspaper reports, dates and give you those details. On the 22nd of May 1983 in the report the ANC leader Oliver Tambo had said earlier in that year before the incident, that they would target soft targets, namely the public, and that means innocent people would be involved, not defence force people or people involved in politics, people like myself we had just left school, we had no political involvement, we didn't know about the political situation in our country really.

MR MALAN: May I ask you a last question. You are aware that the inquest in this case found that the two people who were killed were the people who had planted the bomb but no further information came to light about the origins of the bomb and so forth, are you still keen to find out what happened, who these people were who had given the orders or are these details not relevant to you anymore? Do they not bother you?

MS GELDENHUYS: About four years ago in a Sunday newspaper I read that Mr Joe Slovo had been behind this explosion and



after that nothing came of it. The whole thing was just squashed.

MR MALAN: I will say thank you to you for now. Some of the other Commissioners might have questions and the Chairperson will handle it.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Are there any other questions from any of the other Commissioners?

MS MKHIZE: Miss Geldenhuys if I may ask you you emphasise the fact that you were robbed of your youth can you just maybe share with the Commission briefly as to your understanding of what was happening in the society at that point in time if you had any understanding, especially politically, just in brief?

MS GELDENHUYS: I can't say that politically anything happened to me because as I said earlier I wasn't really politically aware at that time. From a very early age I was confused as regards politics. We didn't really know what was right and what was wrong and as far as society was concerned the way I was handled and treated is that people stared and asked questions and you had to tell the same story over and over again. Many people had already forgotten about it and couldn't even recall such an incident.

CHAIRPERSON: Piet Meiring.

PROF MEIRING: Miss Geldenhuys just a simple question. After having gone this very difficult and traumatic experience which happened years ago and you are still struggling with the after effects what do you think, where could the Truth and Reconciliation Commission help you, in what way?

MS GELDENHUYS: I would like to say that the guilty parties must be brought to justice and they must reveal their



reasons and motives for this attack, and if the State could perhaps assist me with my medical expenses I would appreciate it.


DR MAGWAZA: Ms Geldenhuys you have made mention of the fact that you suffered severe emotional trauma, have you had some form of treatment for the trauma and do you think it has helped you in any way?

MS GELDENHUYS: It was only about two years ago that I really went for psychiatric help. It did help me to some extent to really get over the worst of it.

CHAIRPERSON: Yasmin Sooka.

MS SOOKA: What are you doing at present, are you married.

MS GELDENHUYS: No I am not married.

MS SOOKA: Are you employed?

MS GELDENHUYS: Yes I am working as a creditors clerk.

MS SOOKA: Do you feel that - are you unable to deal with a relationship because of what happened?

MS GELDENHUYS: No I wouldn't be able to say that. No I think I am able to relate to people quite normally but I do feel that I am now in a position which I wouldn't have chosen for myself. I want to become a beauty therapist and I couldn't.

MS SOOKA: How do you feel about the political situation now? At that point in time you said that you were an innocent bystander caught in the conflict, how do you feel now 13 years later about the fact that there is a new government in power? And you also said that nobody in government listened to you and took care of you, how do you feel about that situation now?

MS GELDENHUYS: The new government is of significance to me JOHANNESBURG HEARING TRC/GAUTENG


because it means that I can sit here today and tell my story. Earlier this would not have been possible.

MS SOOKA: Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: To all the people from Gauteng who were injured in the same kind of incident as you were we are deeply sorry, we are so sorry that so many atrocities were committed in our country on both sides of the struggle, and we really hope and trust that this Commission can make some contribution to the reconciliation of our people, to the healing of our nation. We really hope that you will be able to put this experience behind you and that God will help you to heal these wounds.

Now that we have a new government in this country we hope that all of us will try to forget the past and put it behind us. Now that it is possible to come and give testimony in front of the Commission and we hope that perhaps somebody in authority will be able to express his regret for this kind of incident in which you were injured. On behalf of this Commission I would like to repeat once again that we are deeply sorry that so many innocent victims were injured and we hope that God will bless you. Thank you very much.

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